https://www.wurmpedia.com/api.php?action=feedcontributions&feedformat=atom&user=Hephaestus 2026-06-04T14:27:12Z User contributions MediaWiki 1.33.0 https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Settlement:Orient_Isles&diff=25698 2007-09-03T20:38:41Z

<p>Hephaestus: /* Places */</p> <hr /> <div>Orient Isle is a a group of islands that sit well east of Newtown, across the body of water that surrounds Donner's Mountain on the current map, Gold 2 on the Home Server.<br /> <br /> = Purpose =<br /> <br /> Orient Isle has been named simply to give the residents of the area a sense of community so that they may coordinate with each other to make their own individual game lives better as well as the entire state of the Isle.<br /> <br /> === IRC Channel ===<br /> Residents of Orient Isle congregate on the heavenly place IRC network in #OrientIsle. Whether a resident of the area or not, any and all are welcome to join the channel to communicate with the residents for purposes of trade, civic organization, or even just personal chatter.<br /> <br /> To join the IRC channel from within the Wurm client, follow these steps:<br /> # Hit F1 to bring up the console<br /> # Type &quot;IRC&quot; (without quotes) into the console window<br /> # Once the IRC client window is up, type &quot;/join #OrientIsle&quot; (again without the quotes)<br /> <br /> To make your Wurm client automatically log into the channel every time you log in, find the file autorun.txt in your Wurm folder and add the following lines to it:<br /> *IRC<br /> *ircsay /join #OrientIsle<br /> <br /> = People =<br /> <br /> While the social structure of Orient Isle is at present very amorphous, as things grow a loose social hierarchy will emerge. When this happens, you will find a list of people you can contact to become part of the community.<br /> <br /> = Places =<br /> <br /> Currently the Orient Isle region stretches from Steel Bay all the way up to Verdant Isle and encompasses almost every deed in between. This is not static as word of out existence spreads and as our knowledge of geography becomes more complete, thanks largely to [[Kinoss]]'s Map.<br /> <br /> The following settlements are located on the Isle and recognize the region:<br /> <br /> * [[Cheval-blanc]] (HS)<br /> ** [[User:Hephaestus|Li Po]] (mayor)<br /> * [[Verdant Isle]] (Size 5 Village)<br /> ** [[User:Maidin|Maidin]] (mayor)</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Mollsmolyneux&diff=25666 2007-09-03T14:06:20Z

<p>Hephaestus: </p> <hr /> <div>== Recent Edits ==<br /> <br /> I'm not sure if you realize this, but the item:xxx, skills:xxx, etc. entries exist to service the limited wiki functionality of the Wurm client and '''should not''' be redirected to the more complex counterparts. See, for instance, item:foot board. Go into your client, hit F1 then type &quot;wiki foot board&quot; without the quotes. As you can see the ingame wiki client can only really display raw text and ends up showing the user all the formatting commands necessary to make the template. The item:xxx entries are meant to be more sparse just to give players a basic idea of what they're looking at when they use the wiki command in console or when then choose the &quot;What's this?&quot; option from the right click menu.<br /> <br /> I would also say that it's generally not a good idea at all to make broad sweeping changes to any wiki without first discussing it with others. Take for example [[talk:Template Sandbox]] which I created because I wanted to implement templates but I first wanted to see what people thought and I wanted to give them a chance to add their own ideas on the subject before I went ahead and started changing a bunch of pages.<br /> <br /> To be honest I'm not sure what the best course of action is from here and I'd like to see what others think. In the meantime, you may want to consider reverting all those redirects and perhaps talking out whatever idea you may have had. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 09:04, 3 September 2007 (CDT)</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Mollsmolyneux&diff=25665 2007-09-03T14:04:32Z

<p>Hephaestus: New page: == Recent Edits == I'm not sure if you realize this, but the item:xxx, skills:xxx entries exist to service the limited wiki functionality of the Wurm client and '''should not''' be redire...</p> <hr /> <div>== Recent Edits ==<br /> <br /> I'm not sure if you realize this, but the item:xxx, skills:xxx entries exist to service the limited wiki functionality of the Wurm client and '''should not''' be redirected to the more complex counterparts. See, for instance, item:foot board. Go into your client, hit F1 then type &quot;wiki foot board&quot; without the quotes. As you can see the ingame wiki client can only really display raw text and ends up showing the user all the formatting commands necessary to make the template. The item:xxx entries are meant to be more sparse just to give players a basic idea of what they're looking at when they use the wiki command in console or when then choose the &quot;What's this?&quot; option from the right click menu.<br /> <br /> I would also say that it's generally not a good idea at all to make broad sweeping changes to any wiki without first discussing it with others. Take for example [[talk:Template Sandbox]] which I created because I wanted to implement templates but I first wanted to see what people thought and I wanted to give them a chance to add their own ideas on the subject before I went ahead and started changing a bunch of pages.<br /> <br /> To be honest I'm not sure what the best course of action is from here and I'd like to see what others think. In the meantime, you may want to consider reverting all those redirects and perhaps talking out whatever idea you may have had. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 09:04, 3 September 2007 (CDT)</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Studded_leather_jacket&diff=25588 2007-09-02T23:17:21Z

<p>Hephaestus: </p> <hr /> <div>[[CDB|Main]] / [[Skills]] / [[Tailoring]] / [[Leatherworking]] / '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> <br /> {{item<br /> |name={{PAGENAME}}<br /> |active=[[rivets]] <br /> |passive=[[leather jacket]] <br /> |group=Studded leather jacket<br /> |materials=no<br /> |result=:*'''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> |skill=Leatherworking<br /> }}<br /> <br /> == Description ==<br /> A leather jacket studded with iron rivets. <br /> <br /> Studded leather armour generally provides a moderate amount of base defense with similar penalties as [[:Category:Leather armour|leather armour]].&lt;br/&gt; Studded leather armour represents a good common ground between speed and reasonable defense though still less base defense then plate provides.<br /> <br /> == Note ==<br /> The material type of the rivets currently has no effect on the armour itself. <br /> <br /> [[Category:Babel/S]]<br /> [[Category:Studded leather armour]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Key&diff=25587 2007-09-02T23:15:56Z

<p>Hephaestus: </p> <hr /> <div>[[CDB|Main]] / [[Skills]] / [[Smithing]] / [[Locksmithing]] / '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> <br /> {{item<br /> |name={{PAGENAME}}<br /> |active=[[copper lump]] (0.5 kg)<br /> |passive=[[key form]] <br /> |group=Miscellaneous<br /> |materials=no<br /> |result=:*'''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> :*Failed - [[copper scrap]] (0.5 kg)<br /> |skill=Smithing<br /> }}<br /> <br /> == Description ==<br /> A key made of copper.<br /> <br /> === Usage ===<br /> :*Used to open doors and gates. When creating locks, a [[key]] is produced. In this case, the [[key]]'s quality will match the lock's [[quality]]. You can make copies of [[key]]s using a [[key form]]. <br /> <br /> === Miscellany ===<br /> :*Copies made from a [[Key Form|form]] will have different ql's than the original key. A copy can be identified by seeing if ''&quot;It has some weird dents&quot;'' is in the key's description. This goes even for 2nd+ generation copies.<br /> <br /> <br /> [[Category:Locksmithing items]]<br /> [[Category:Babel/K]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Chisel_blade&diff=25577 2007-09-02T21:55:40Z

<p>Hephaestus: </p> <hr /> <div>[[CDB|Main]] / [[Skills]] / [[Smithing]] / [[Weapon smithing]] / [[Blades smithing]] / '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> <br /> {{item<br /> |name=Chisel blade<br /> |active=[[small anvil]] <br /> |passive=[[iron lump]] (0.3 kg)<br /> |group=Miscellaneous<br /> |materials=no<br /> |result=:*'''{{PAGENAME}}''' (0.3 kg)<br /> |skill=Blades smithing<br /> }}<br /> <br /> == Description ==<br /> Used in the creation of a [[stone chisel]], together with a [[wooden handle]]. <br /> <br /> [[Category:Blades smithing items]]<br /> [[Category:Babel/C]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Chain_gauntlet&diff=25576 2007-09-02T21:55:21Z

<p>Hephaestus: </p> <hr /> <div>[[CDB|Main]] / [[Skills]] / [[Smithing]] / [[Armour smithing]] / [[Chain armour smithing]] / '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> <br /> {{item<br /> |name={{PAGENAME}}<br /> |active=[[Armour chains]] (0.33 kg)<br /> |passive=[[Large anvil]] <br /> |group=Armour<br /> |materials=no<br /> |result=:*'''{{PAGENAME}}''' (0.30 kg)<br /> :*[[Iron scrap]] (0.3 kg)<br /> |skill=Chain armour smithing<br /> }}<br /> <br /> == Description ==<br /> Chain armour for your hands, so you won't get injured there as often. Like all armor, it gradually takes damage in combat.<br /> <br /> Chain armour generally provides a middle ground base defense with moderate penalties to speed. The wearer will walk moderately slower and have a moderately slower attack speed. Chain armor offers a defense bonus vs stabbing damage, while the equipment itself receives extra damage from stabbing. <br /> <br /> [[Category:Chain armour]] [[Category:Babel/C]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Leather&diff=25575 2007-09-02T21:51:33Z

<p>Hephaestus: Use &quot;materials=no&quot; in case we can parse that section out</p> <hr /> <div>[[CDB|Main]] / [[Skills]] / [[Tailoring]] / [[Leatherworking]] / '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> <br /> {{item<br /> |name={{PAGENAME}}<br /> |active=[[lye]] <br /> |passive=[[Animal hide]] (0.3 kg)<br /> |group=Miscellaneous<br /> |materials=no<br /> |result=:*'''{{PAGENAME}}''' (0.3 kg)<br /> :*Failure - [[Leather pieces]] (6.0 kg)<br /> |skill=Leatherworking<br /> }}<br /> <br /> == Description ==<br /> The prepared [[animal hide | hide]] of an animal.<br /> <br /> == Usage ==<br /> Creating and improving [[leatherworking]] items.<br /> <br /> [[Category:Babel/L]]<br /> [[Category:Leather items]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Foot_board&diff=25562 2007-09-02T18:52:16Z

<p>Hephaestus: /* Description */</p> <hr /> <div>[[CDB|Main]] / [[Skills]] / [[Carpentry]] / [[Fine carpentry]] / '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> {{Item<br /> |name=Foot board<br /> |active=[[small nails]]<br /> |passive=[[plank]]<br /> |materials=*1 [[plank]]<br /> *2 [[shaft]] (1 kg each)<br /> |result=* '''{{PAGENAME}}''' - (4.2 kg)<br /> * Unfinished '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> |skill=fine carpentry}}<br /> <br /> == Description ==<br /> For attaching to unfinished [[bed]].<br /> <br /> [[Category:Fine carpentry items]]<br /> [[Category:Babel/F]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Lantern&diff=25561 2007-09-02T18:41:46Z

<p>Hephaestus: </p> <hr /> <div>[[CDB|Main]] / [[Skills]] / [[Smithing]] / [[Blacksmithing]] / '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> <br /> {{Item<br /> |name=Lantern<br /> |active=[[glowing]] [[iron lump]] (0.8 kg)<br /> |passive=[[large anvil]]<br /> |group=Miscellaneous<br /> |materials=* None<br /> |result=* 1 iron lantern (0.8 kg)<br /> |skill=blacksmithing<br /> }}<br /> <br /> ==Description==<br /> *A lantern for producing light. Fill it with 0.20 kg of [[olive oil]] or [[tar]], then light it with a [[steel and flint]].<br /> *Oil is rumored to produce light for longer than tar.<br /> *A full lantern will burn for almost 24 hours depending on quality, further studies are needed to determine more precise burn times.<br /> *If the lantern is [[dye|painted]], the light from the lantern will be that colour. Black dye has no effect on the light of the lantern. <br /> <br /> [[Category:Babel/I]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Trowel&diff=25560 2007-09-02T18:40:01Z

<p>Hephaestus: template</p> <hr /> <div>[[CDB|Main]] / [[:Category:Skills|Skills]] / [[Smithing]] / [[Blacksmithing]] / '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> <br /> {{Item<br /> |name=Trowel<br /> |active=[[trowel blade]]<br /> |passive=[[wooden handle]]<br /> |materials=no<br /> |result=* '''{{PAGENAME}}''' - (0.45 kg)<br /> * Unfinished '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> |skill=blacksmithing}}<br /> <br /> == Description ==<br /> Used to make stone building walls.<br /> <br /> [[Category:Babel/T]]<br /> [[Category:Blacksmithing items]]<br /> [[Category:Tools]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Clay_jar&diff=25559 2007-09-02T18:37:22Z

<p>Hephaestus: template</p> <hr /> <div>[[CDB|Main]] / [[Skills]] / [[Pottery]] / '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> <br /> {{Item<br /> |name=Clay jar<br /> |active=hand<br /> |passive=lump of [[clay]] (0.3 kg)<br /> |group=Containers<br /> |materials=no<br /> |result=* '''{{PAGENAME}}''' - (0.3 kg)<br /> * Unfinished '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> |skill=pottery}}<br /> <br /> == Description ==<br /> A jar made of [[clay]]. Can be used to hold liquids as well as other small items.<br /> <br /> You need to put it in a [[campfire]] or [[stone oven]] to turn it into a [[pottery jar]].<br /> <br /> [[Category:Pottery items]]<br /> [[Category:Babel/C]]<br /> [[Category:Containers]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Large_anvil&diff=25558 2007-09-02T18:34:17Z

<p>Hephaestus: template</p> <hr /> <div>[[CDB|Main]] / [[Skills]] / [[Smithing]] / [[Blacksmithing]] / '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> <br /> {{Item<br /> |name=Large Anvil<br /> |active=[[iron lump]] (50 kg)<br /> |passive=[[small anvil]]<br /> |group=Decorations<br /> |materials=no<br /> |result=* '''{{PAGENAME}}''' - (50 kg)<br /> * Unfinished '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> |skill=blacksmithing}}<br /> <br /> == Description ==<br /> A large heavy metal anvil. Madness to make, so make sure you have a high blacksmithing skill before you begin.<br /> <br /> [[Category:Blacksmithing items]]<br /> [[Category:Babel/L]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Scissors&diff=25557 2007-09-02T18:31:25Z

<p>Hephaestus: template</p> <hr /> <div>[[CDB|Main]] / [[Skills]] / [[Smithing]] / [[Blacksmithing]] / '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> <br /> {{Item<br /> |name=Scissors<br /> |active=[[scissor blade]]<br /> |passive=second [[scissor blade]]<br /> |materials=no<br /> |result=* '''{{PAGENAME}}''' - (0.4 kg)<br /> |skill=blacksmithing}}<br /> <br /> == Description ==<br /> Scissors used in finishing and improving items made with [[cloth tailoring]].<br /> <br /> [[Category:Tools]]<br /> [[Category:Blacksmithing items]]<br /> [[Category:Babel/S]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Shovel&diff=25556 2007-09-02T18:28:24Z

<p>Hephaestus: template</p> <hr /> <div>[[CDB|Main]] / [[Skills]] / [[Smithing]] / [[Blacksmithing]] / '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> <br /> {{Item<br /> |name=Shovel<br /> |active=[[shaft]] (1.0 kg)<br /> |passive=[[shovel blade]]<br /> |materials=no<br /> |result=* '''{{PAGENAME}}''' - (2.0 kg)<br /> * Unfinished '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> |skill=blacksmithing}}<br /> <br /> == Description ==<br /> Used to dig up [[Pile_of_dirt|dirt]] and [[clay]]. Can also be used to flatten land or pack dirt for faster travel. Or to cut down trees and bushes. Also your primary tool for [[Digging | terraforming]]/Landscaping and building [[roads]]/paths. It is a terrible implement for fighting, and is not recommended for such purposes. The shovel provided for you as part of the set of beginner gear &lt;b&gt;cannot&lt;/b&gt; be improved. You must make a new shovel from scratch to improve it over QL10 if all you have is your starter shovel.<br /> <br /> [[Category:Blacksmithing items]]<br /> [[Category:Tools]]<br /> [[Category:Babel/S]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Iron_ribbon&diff=25555 2007-09-02T18:25:14Z

<p>Hephaestus: template</p> <hr /> <div>[[CDB|Main]] / [[:Category:Skills|Skills]] / [[Smithing]] / [[Blacksmithing]] / '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> <br /> {{Item<br /> |name=Iron ribbon<br /> |active=[[iron lump]] (3.0 kg)<br /> |passive=[[large anvil]]<br /> |group=Miscellaneous<br /> |materials=no<br /> |result=* '''{{PAGENAME}}''' - (3.0 kg)<br /> |skill=blacksmithing<br /> }}<br /> <br /> == Description ==<br /> An iron ribbon. Primarily used to make fine carpentry items out of, such as [[large barrel]]s and [[large chest]]s. Also useful for their part in [[support beam]]s.<br /> <br /> [[Category:Blacksmithing items]][[Category:Babel/I]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Settlement_talk:Template_Sandbox&diff=25554 2007-09-02T18:22:57Z

<p>Hephaestus: /* Issues */</p> <hr /> <div>I was thinking that for pages on just about everything covering any kind of resource or building process (like 80% of this wiki) are sort of ugly and they don't flow well. They are, however, quite consistent which is good. If you browse on over the [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Jeweler%27s_Workshop Dwarf Fortress wiki], you'll see nice template boxes on the right hand side that provide a sort of &quot;just the facts&quot; view of several different categories of things. Now DF and Wurm don't have a lot in common, but there is one thing that binds them: they're both games about stuff. I was thinking that designing templates for many of our &quot;stuff-related&quot; pages would really jazz up this wiki and make it more functional. It would provide easy at a glance info in the box, leaving the rest of the page to discuss quirks, advice, or general discussion on that item/building.<br /> <br /> Anyway, I created this page for tinkering with templates to see if I or any of you can come up with something that looks nice and works.<br /> --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:00, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> Also, if you guys think it's cool, I'll make a trial template page and a fake item entry to tinker around with the templates.<br /> --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:40, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Let's try to keep it to one set of pages. One template (e.g. [[Template:Test]]) and one page to use it one (e.g. this page) is enough, any more extensive testing fits better as a subpage of your user page. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 15:39, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: At current, I have made 3 pages including this one with no plans to make any other. You're right though in that one page, [[TestItem]] can be done away with and I can test the results of the template tinkering on this page. Overall, I'm more interested in what people think of this idea in general. To me, it would make this wiki so much more tidy and easy to read, but I'm not interested in foisting my aesthetic onto others if they don't want it. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:46, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: It feels strange, but then again it usually does when something new comes along, it will probably grow onto people. On the other hand I'm no wiki-admin, so I'm not in charge to do such decisions ^_^ --[[User:Steffel|Steffe]] 21:19, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: Well, if you want to check it out, I plugged the information for a hatchet into [[TestItem]]. I'll probably be making up a test image that should be used as a standard for such a template. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 22:08, 21 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: Hmm, I kinda like the old (current) version better, it feels so empty with the template-version :/ Then again, it's just that, a test so far. --[[User:Steffel|Steffe]] 19:55, 22 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::::: Well, I agree with you. But isn't it funny how condensed the information can be? I guess my point is that most of these wiki articles are too sparse. I've personally come across about 3/4 of the pages that need more information. Just the facts doesn't always do it. I guess the point of the template is to get &quot;just the facts&quot; off to the side and easy to spot so that we can maybe spend more time on more in depth information. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 21:43, 22 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> (Skipping indentation) I think the core issue here is that usually '''there is no in-depth information'''. We have a huge amount of pages whose only unique information can be reduced to about five lines fitting inside a box: The name of the result item, the two items to combine, the items needed to complete it, and the skill used. Everything else is either redundant or fluff.<br /> <br /> I've been thinking about introducing template boxes myself, so I support this measure. I see three main benefits. 1) A consistent view of the core information. 2) Getting rid of redundancy. 3) By cleaning up the pages, it becomes visually obvious that there's room for (and need for) in-depth information.<br /> <br /> I would have adjusted the template some, but I'm still waiting for Egal to add the parserfunctions extension. Also moved the showcase to this page. Makes little sense to use the talk page of a different article from the one we're testing in. :) - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 15:46, 23 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Thanks for the much needed input Dashiva. I agree with you on almost all counts. I do agree that we need to keep things concise, but many pages are more than a few degrees shy of concise. For example, the other day I made my first dirt mound and I realized that the wiki didn't mention that you need a second kindling to start the pile. Also, there was no indication of what affected the output of the pile. There are lots of pages like that. Just because information doesn't fall within the template box doesn't mean it's not crucial. That being said, I think critical mass with the template box would have the outside-of-box text filling up the space to the left of the box and maybe a bit below, but not too much.<br /> <br /> :Template boxes also, as I've said, allow for easier parsing of critical information for quick reference. I also believe that the sparsity of info on the current wiki pages is stylistically negative as very little info tends to get spread over broad expanses of real estate. There are some pages that have no need of much in depth info, so even these pages would benefit from condensing into such a consistent box to make the info more readable. I'm hoping to maybe tweak the template box a little (I'm thinking of merging the image slot and the result slot because they really are redundant) then maybe meshing them into item entries. What do you think? I may also start working on a building template here that serves much the same function, but geared towards information relevant to buildings. Having gone through many of the entries for both items and buildings I find that most entries &lt;i&gt;are not&lt;/i&gt; consistent as I had initially thought. and need to be cleaned up as well. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 14:36, 24 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> === Implementation ===<br /> Since there were no major objections, I went ahead and started putting the template box into various item entries. I assume the work will be long and tedious. Any brave soul out there care to help me?<br /> <br /> In the future I'd also like to consider Bestiary templates, building templates, and some others. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 22:52, 26 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :Some pages such as [[carving knife]] and [[lantern]] have improvement(-tools) sections. Should these be part of the template? [[User:Manny|Manny]] 08:54, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: I was kind of wondering that myself. Since the tools used to imp most things are common to only a few major categories, to include them on every item entry would be redundant. I'm thinking maybe some kind of link to the improvement tool set? Then again, we could edit the various skills entries to include what tools are used when improving in that area. I do think that putting them into the template box is a bit clunky, but maybe there's a graceful way. What do you think? --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 09:40, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: I suppose listing the improvement method on the skill pages should be enough. Any exception to the normal improvement method should be mentioned on the item page itself. [[User:Manny|Manny]] 10:00, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : It's good to see everyone's so eager to get started, but please hold your (so far unimplemented) horses. Egal finally implemented ParserFunctions, so I have in mind to tinker quite a bit with the templates now. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 16:18, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: Well, some of us have already started, but for now we can put the brakes on. What are your plans? I mean can't you tinker with the templates even after we've template-ized the pages or do you have something more drastic in mind? --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:36, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: Check out what I did to [[Template:Test]] (demoed on this page) for a basic idea. We want to remove as much redundancy as possible, especially the &quot;method&quot; explanation apart from the actual items. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 16:46, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: Aesthetically I like what you did very much. However, and speaking of redundancy, doesn't it seem redundant to list a skill twice in a row when talking about improving? Is there a way we can indicate that making an item relies on a skill as well as the tools that belong to that skill set to improve? I do worry that the method section may have been tightened up too much. While it was kind of bloated, there was a use. When confronted with the act of using an iron lump on a large anvil there may be two dozen choices in 4 menus available. For clarity's sake, I think it would be nice to somehow concisely indicate the path down that tree. Again, the old way was a bit bulky and not at all concise. I'm hoping we can come up with something new. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:59, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: That's what discussion is for. I agree that having the skill listed twice seems redundant, I did it that way to allow for exceptions. However, it's also possible to hide that entire section unless there is an exception. Adding the create category is also just a matter of including new parameters. We could do &quot;Select Create / {{{group}}} / {{{name}}}&quot; or &quot;Select Create / {{{create}}}&quot; or some other variation. Which would you prefer? - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 17:14, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> (new indent) I think just Create&gt;Group is good but only for those entries where there are a ton of choice. I think just the way you have it is perfect for most things. Also, I prefer to use &quot;&gt;&quot; simply because that's the symbol the game uses. I don't know if that makes for any html or wiki wonkiness. One thing I was thinking was to change &quot;Additional materials&quot; section back to &quot;Tools required&quot; that way we could always put a link to the set of tools needed to imp a certain thing. This would require the creation of only a few pages and would give us a space to give general advice on how to improve things particular to each set. The link in the table could just say &quot;Tools for Improvement&quot; and link to a list of possible tools needed to imp plus advice on how best to go about it. What do you think? One small thing I'd like to point out is that I think the image should be centered in the space. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 17:48, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Okay, now it adds a third line saying &quot;Select submenu Create &gt; Group-param&quot; if the parameter group is given. The text &quot;select submenu&quot; could be replaced by something different. I also merged skill and improve, so it now has one section &quot;Skill and improvement&quot; which says &quot;Uses skill-param&quot; normally, and &quot;Uses skill-param, but improves as improve-param&quot; if the parameter improve is given. That way we can keep default tools on the skill page (most already have this), and exceptions are free to link anywhere they want. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 18:13, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: I like it quite a bit. Though could you center the image? Otherwise it's nice and tight, which is what we want, I think. Plus, the aesthetic additions you made to it really make it &quot;pop&quot;. I just need to bone up on how to use these parameters then I'd be happy to start editing in this new template. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:18, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: Image should be centered now, but I still think we should wait a day or two for other people to comment (probably just going to be Manny though {{smiley}}). Changing the style and stuff can be done at any time, but if we decide to change the parameter names, we'd have to redo all the existing template use. In the meantime, there's plenty of other stuff to do. The design for the village/homestead/settlement templates is up for grabs. I'm also interested in some discussion on whether we should plan templates for skill pages or not. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 18:34, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: I'd like to try and tackle a bestiary template if that's alright with you. I do think a settlement template would be great as well. After that I'd say all that's needed is a building template. I do think we should be careful and make sure this item template is solid, because in my mind all templates should be stylistically consistent. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:51, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> Might I recommend a section on decay rates, which can be filled later? Pinkdaisy was kind enough to tell me what she knew, in terms of real time: Mortar is &quot;mere minutes.&quot; Food is every 4-6 hours. Logs, rock shards, walls, fences buildings are daily. Tools are weekly. Ovens and forges are 2-4 weeks, at a guess. --[[User:Thorgot|Thorgot]] 02:04, 29 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : I would say this fits better in the main body of the article. It is not something we can record accurately, and the template is intended for the core information. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 14:34, 29 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> The category thing displays as &lt;nowiki&gt; [[Category:&lt;/nowiki&gt;[[weapon smithing]]&lt;nowiki&gt; items]] &lt;/nowiki&gt; here, I'm not sure how to fix that. Maybe this should be optional btw, things like [[milk]] or the [[yoyo]] would be getting it's own category. [[User:Manny|Manny]] 05:01, 29 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : I fixed the category issue. The lonely items would indeed be getting their own category, but that's a consequence of them being the only items from their skill. There may be more later, and it doesn't cost us anything to categorize them when the template does it automatically. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 14:34, 29 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: Allright. Is the template ready to be used now? {{smiley}} --[[User:Manny|Manny]] 15:45, 31 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: Assuming nobody's burning in with discontent over the parameter names, I'd say we're ready to go. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 17:00, 31 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: I'm all for it. Thanks for putting the really nice finishing touches on this idea, Dashiva. I think this will increase the quality of this wiki tenfold. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:22, 31 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> == Issues ==<br /> <br /> Some observations I made checking out the template in action.<br /> <br /> * The item categories will now be filled automatically. Maybe we should take the obvious step and replace their page text with a template as well? Since the item template automatically categorizes items, it also seems proper to change the notice on how to add items to the category.<br /> * Should the item template also add everything to Category:Items?<br /> * Some items can be created with A on B, and B on A. Other items only work one way, and some items like large anvil cannot be used as the active item, ever. My personal inclination is to only list the &quot;right&quot; way (tool active, material right-clicked) even if the reverse works as well.<br /> * Should the template add pages to e.g. Category:Items_missing_skill_classification, Category:Items_missing_create_menu_group, or similar? That would make it easier add a partial template and fix it later, rather than having to research everything up front.<br /> <br /> Let's hear it. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 10:04, 1 September 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> :: My thoughts: First: I like the idea of revamping category pages, but I don't really understand how much work this will entail. If it's a quick fix it seems logical to fix it all at once while we're looking at it anyway<br /> <br /> :: Second: Yes, absolutely. Though we sort of have to stay diligent to make sure that erroneous items aren't added to the wrong categories.<br /> <br /> :: Third: I don't see the need to list a second way if it's possible. I agree with you that we should pick the &quot;right&quot; way and stick with it.<br /> <br /> :: Fourth: I guess my understanding of how these parse function templates works isn't deep enough to really have an opinion on that. How does this work?<br /> <br /> :: --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 11:46, 1 September 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: 1) I've added a prototype of the item category template. It needs another extension installed, or alternatively we can provide the skill name as an input parameter every time. I'll talk to Egal about it. 2) Added Category:Items to the template. 4) Any template missing at least one of active,passive,group,materials,result,skill will be added to Category:Incomplete_item_templates. 5) I have also added support for the special value &quot;no&quot; for materials (items that don't need finishing) and improve (items that cannot be improved).<br /> <br /> ::: New issue: What about items that aren't obtained by crafting? - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 07:13, 2 September 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: Those do not need a template I guess. None of the fields in the current template applies to them. --[[User:Manny|Manny]] 07:30, 2 September 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> &lt;b&gt;(Vowels and plurals)&lt;/b&gt; I've noticed that the sentence structure of the active and passive items uses &quot;a&quot; assuming singular. Yet things like [[small nails]] are really singular only as far as the game is concerned. I guess we could append &quot;handful of&quot; to make the sentence look right. Also, of course, if the active or passive item start with a vowel the article will be incorrect and should be &quot;an&quot; not &quot;a&quot;. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 12:41, 2 September 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> &lt;b&gt;(Another parse suggestion)&lt;/b&gt; Is it possible to make the materials subsection a parsed section? If something really only has two elements (and that's a lot oof things) this section seems unnecessary. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 13:22, 2 September 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> == Images ==<br /> <br /> [[User:Lainiwakura|Lainiwakura]] said on Template:Item: Could pass a variable here to choose image format?<br /> <br /> Also set me thinking about the actual images. Would it be the icon or the rendered model? What is the benefit of including an image? Who would create them? - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 06:15, 2 September 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> I have also added an image parameter to allow arbitrary file names. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 06:52, 2 September 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Rendered models, ppl tend to like to see how stuff looks in-game. See here for an example image: http://www.wurmonline.com/wiki/index.php/Image:Pickaxe.png. Anyone could make them. --[[User:Manny|Manny]] 06:56, 2 September 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: Can you use another if statement for these? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;_item.jpg/.png/_item.png/.jpg&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; ...I've forgotten how to do it. :P &lt;p&gt;&lt;small&gt;--http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/8964/duckieta2.gif[[User:Lainiwakura|Lain Iwakura]] 09:35, 2 September 2007 (CDT)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Small_anvil&diff=25553 2007-09-02T18:17:01Z

<p>Hephaestus: template</p> <hr /> <div>[[CDB|Main]] / [[Skills]] / [[Smithing]] / [[Blacksmithing]] / '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> <br /> {{Item<br /> |name=Small anvil<br /> |active=[[mallet]] or [[hammer]]<br /> |passive=[[iron lump]] (2.0 kg)<br /> |group=Tools<br /> |materials=no<br /> |result=* '''{{PAGENAME}}''' - (2.0 kg)<br /> * Unfinished '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> |skill=blacksmithing}}<br /> <br /> == Description ==<br /> A small but heavy metal anvil. Used in the creation of many small metal crafts.<br /> <br /> [[Category:Blacksmithing items]]<br /> [[Category:Tools]]<br /> [[Category:Babel/S]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Yoyo&diff=25552 2007-09-02T18:09:27Z

<p>Hephaestus: template and misc. cleaning</p> <hr /> <div>[[CDB|Main]] / [[Skills]] / [[Carpentry]] / [[Toy making]] / '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> <br /> {{Item<br /> |name=Yoyo<br /> |active=[[string of cloth]] (0.1 kg)<br /> |passive=[[shaft]] (?? kg)<br /> |group=Miscellaneous<br /> |materials=no<br /> |result='''{{PAGENAME}}''' (?? kg)<br /> |skill=toy making}}<br /> <br /> == Description ==<br /> A small spool of wood with a string rolled up in the center. <br /> <br /> === Note ===<br /> Yoyos '''cannot''' be improved. [[Quality]] depends largely on the quality of the shaft used. <br /> <br /> === Usage ===<br /> Usage improves [[mind speed]] and [[skills:Yoyo|Yoyo skill]].<br /> <br /> === Moves ===<br /> *Sun<br /> *Grind<br /> *Cradle<br /> *Suicide Basilisk<br /> *Whip<br /> *Orbit<br /> *Orbit Over Back<br /> *Dragon Knot<br /> <br /> == A successful Sequence ==<br /> (Times are Perth Time on 24/Apr/2007)&lt;br&gt;<br /> [21:35:22] The yoyo has good speed now.&lt;br&gt;<br /> [21:35:27] You try the 'sun' and succeed!&lt;br&gt;<br /> [21:35:37] You try the 'grind' and succeed!&lt;br&gt;<br /> [21:35:47] You try the 'cradle' and succeed!&lt;br&gt;<br /> [21:35:57] You try the 'suicide basilisk' and succeed!&lt;br&gt;<br /> [21:36:07] You try the 'whip' and succeed!&lt;br&gt;<br /> [21:36:17] You try the 'orbit' and succeed!&lt;br&gt;<br /> [21:36:27] You try the 'orbit over back' and succeed!&lt;br&gt;<br /> [21:36:37] You try the 'dragon knot' and succeed!&lt;br&gt;<br /> [21:36:37] You reel the yoyo in.&lt;br&gt;<br /> <br /> [[Category:Carpentry items]]<br /> [[Category:Babel/Y]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Door_lock&diff=25550 2007-09-02T18:01:27Z

<p>Hephaestus: template</p> <hr /> <div>[[CDB|Main]] / [[:Category:Skills|Skills]] / [[Smithing]] / [[Locksmithing]] / '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> <br /> {{Item<br /> |name=Door lock<br /> |active=[[iron lump]] (0.6 kg)<br /> |passive=[[small anvil]]<br /> |group=Locks<br /> |materials=no<br /> |result=* '''{{PAGENAME}}''' - (0.5 kg)<br /> |skill=locksmithing}}<br /> <br /> == Usage ==<br /> Door lock can be attached to wooden doors by activating the lock and right clicking on the door, but only if you have the writ. The writ acts as the key, the owner and all added guests can enter and leave the house (so you don't get an actual key as with chest/gates).<br /> <br /> [[Category:Locksmithing items]]<br /> [[Category:Babel/D]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Quiver&diff=25542 2007-09-02T17:54:55Z

<p>Hephaestus: template</p> <hr /> <div>[[CDB|Main]] / [[Skills]] / [[Tailoring]] / [[Leatherworking]] / '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> {{Item<br /> |item=Quiver<br /> |active=[[needle]]<br /> |passive=piece of [[leather]] (0.275 kg)<br /> |group=Containers<br /> |materials=no<br /> |result=* '''{{PAGENAME}}''' - (0.25 kg)<br /> * [[Leather pieces]] (0.025 kg)<br /> |skill=leatherworking}}<br /> <br /> == Description ==<br /> This [[:Category:Containers|container]] holds [[arrows]] and is worn on the [[Inventory|torso]] or [[Inventory|legs]].<br /> <br /> [[Category:Leather items]]<br /> [[Category:Containers]]<br /> [[Category:Babel/Q]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Stone_chisel&diff=25537 2007-09-02T17:48:03Z

<p>Hephaestus: template</p> <hr /> <div>[[CDB|Main]] / [[Skills]] / [[Smithing]] / [[Blacksmithing]] / '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> {{Item<br /> |name=Stone chisel<br /> |active=[[wooden handle]]<br /> |passive=[[chisel blade]]<br /> |materials=no<br /> |result=* '''{{PAGENAME}}''' - (0.4 kg)<br /> * Unfinished '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> |skill=blacksmithing}}<br /> <br /> == Description ==<br /> A straight tool with a strong hard blade made for cutting stone. Used primarily in shaping [[rock shards]] but also used to improve [[forge]]s and [[oven]]s.<br /> <br /> [[Category:Babel/S]]<br /> [[Category:Blacksmithing items]]<br /> [[Category:Tools]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Settlement_talk:Template_Sandbox&diff=25535 2007-09-02T17:41:18Z

<p>Hephaestus: /* Issues */</p> <hr /> <div>I was thinking that for pages on just about everything covering any kind of resource or building process (like 80% of this wiki) are sort of ugly and they don't flow well. They are, however, quite consistent which is good. If you browse on over the [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Jeweler%27s_Workshop Dwarf Fortress wiki], you'll see nice template boxes on the right hand side that provide a sort of &quot;just the facts&quot; view of several different categories of things. Now DF and Wurm don't have a lot in common, but there is one thing that binds them: they're both games about stuff. I was thinking that designing templates for many of our &quot;stuff-related&quot; pages would really jazz up this wiki and make it more functional. It would provide easy at a glance info in the box, leaving the rest of the page to discuss quirks, advice, or general discussion on that item/building.<br /> <br /> Anyway, I created this page for tinkering with templates to see if I or any of you can come up with something that looks nice and works.<br /> --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:00, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> Also, if you guys think it's cool, I'll make a trial template page and a fake item entry to tinker around with the templates.<br /> --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:40, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Let's try to keep it to one set of pages. One template (e.g. [[Template:Test]]) and one page to use it one (e.g. this page) is enough, any more extensive testing fits better as a subpage of your user page. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 15:39, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: At current, I have made 3 pages including this one with no plans to make any other. You're right though in that one page, [[TestItem]] can be done away with and I can test the results of the template tinkering on this page. Overall, I'm more interested in what people think of this idea in general. To me, it would make this wiki so much more tidy and easy to read, but I'm not interested in foisting my aesthetic onto others if they don't want it. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:46, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: It feels strange, but then again it usually does when something new comes along, it will probably grow onto people. On the other hand I'm no wiki-admin, so I'm not in charge to do such decisions ^_^ --[[User:Steffel|Steffe]] 21:19, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: Well, if you want to check it out, I plugged the information for a hatchet into [[TestItem]]. I'll probably be making up a test image that should be used as a standard for such a template. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 22:08, 21 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: Hmm, I kinda like the old (current) version better, it feels so empty with the template-version :/ Then again, it's just that, a test so far. --[[User:Steffel|Steffe]] 19:55, 22 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::::: Well, I agree with you. But isn't it funny how condensed the information can be? I guess my point is that most of these wiki articles are too sparse. I've personally come across about 3/4 of the pages that need more information. Just the facts doesn't always do it. I guess the point of the template is to get &quot;just the facts&quot; off to the side and easy to spot so that we can maybe spend more time on more in depth information. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 21:43, 22 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> (Skipping indentation) I think the core issue here is that usually '''there is no in-depth information'''. We have a huge amount of pages whose only unique information can be reduced to about five lines fitting inside a box: The name of the result item, the two items to combine, the items needed to complete it, and the skill used. Everything else is either redundant or fluff.<br /> <br /> I've been thinking about introducing template boxes myself, so I support this measure. I see three main benefits. 1) A consistent view of the core information. 2) Getting rid of redundancy. 3) By cleaning up the pages, it becomes visually obvious that there's room for (and need for) in-depth information.<br /> <br /> I would have adjusted the template some, but I'm still waiting for Egal to add the parserfunctions extension. Also moved the showcase to this page. Makes little sense to use the talk page of a different article from the one we're testing in. :) - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 15:46, 23 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Thanks for the much needed input Dashiva. I agree with you on almost all counts. I do agree that we need to keep things concise, but many pages are more than a few degrees shy of concise. For example, the other day I made my first dirt mound and I realized that the wiki didn't mention that you need a second kindling to start the pile. Also, there was no indication of what affected the output of the pile. There are lots of pages like that. Just because information doesn't fall within the template box doesn't mean it's not crucial. That being said, I think critical mass with the template box would have the outside-of-box text filling up the space to the left of the box and maybe a bit below, but not too much.<br /> <br /> :Template boxes also, as I've said, allow for easier parsing of critical information for quick reference. I also believe that the sparsity of info on the current wiki pages is stylistically negative as very little info tends to get spread over broad expanses of real estate. There are some pages that have no need of much in depth info, so even these pages would benefit from condensing into such a consistent box to make the info more readable. I'm hoping to maybe tweak the template box a little (I'm thinking of merging the image slot and the result slot because they really are redundant) then maybe meshing them into item entries. What do you think? I may also start working on a building template here that serves much the same function, but geared towards information relevant to buildings. Having gone through many of the entries for both items and buildings I find that most entries &lt;i&gt;are not&lt;/i&gt; consistent as I had initially thought. and need to be cleaned up as well. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 14:36, 24 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> === Implementation ===<br /> Since there were no major objections, I went ahead and started putting the template box into various item entries. I assume the work will be long and tedious. Any brave soul out there care to help me?<br /> <br /> In the future I'd also like to consider Bestiary templates, building templates, and some others. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 22:52, 26 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :Some pages such as [[carving knife]] and [[lantern]] have improvement(-tools) sections. Should these be part of the template? [[User:Manny|Manny]] 08:54, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: I was kind of wondering that myself. Since the tools used to imp most things are common to only a few major categories, to include them on every item entry would be redundant. I'm thinking maybe some kind of link to the improvement tool set? Then again, we could edit the various skills entries to include what tools are used when improving in that area. I do think that putting them into the template box is a bit clunky, but maybe there's a graceful way. What do you think? --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 09:40, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: I suppose listing the improvement method on the skill pages should be enough. Any exception to the normal improvement method should be mentioned on the item page itself. [[User:Manny|Manny]] 10:00, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : It's good to see everyone's so eager to get started, but please hold your (so far unimplemented) horses. Egal finally implemented ParserFunctions, so I have in mind to tinker quite a bit with the templates now. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 16:18, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: Well, some of us have already started, but for now we can put the brakes on. What are your plans? I mean can't you tinker with the templates even after we've template-ized the pages or do you have something more drastic in mind? --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:36, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: Check out what I did to [[Template:Test]] (demoed on this page) for a basic idea. We want to remove as much redundancy as possible, especially the &quot;method&quot; explanation apart from the actual items. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 16:46, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: Aesthetically I like what you did very much. However, and speaking of redundancy, doesn't it seem redundant to list a skill twice in a row when talking about improving? Is there a way we can indicate that making an item relies on a skill as well as the tools that belong to that skill set to improve? I do worry that the method section may have been tightened up too much. While it was kind of bloated, there was a use. When confronted with the act of using an iron lump on a large anvil there may be two dozen choices in 4 menus available. For clarity's sake, I think it would be nice to somehow concisely indicate the path down that tree. Again, the old way was a bit bulky and not at all concise. I'm hoping we can come up with something new. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:59, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: That's what discussion is for. I agree that having the skill listed twice seems redundant, I did it that way to allow for exceptions. However, it's also possible to hide that entire section unless there is an exception. Adding the create category is also just a matter of including new parameters. We could do &quot;Select Create / {{{group}}} / {{{name}}}&quot; or &quot;Select Create / {{{create}}}&quot; or some other variation. Which would you prefer? - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 17:14, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> (new indent) I think just Create&gt;Group is good but only for those entries where there are a ton of choice. I think just the way you have it is perfect for most things. Also, I prefer to use &quot;&gt;&quot; simply because that's the symbol the game uses. I don't know if that makes for any html or wiki wonkiness. One thing I was thinking was to change &quot;Additional materials&quot; section back to &quot;Tools required&quot; that way we could always put a link to the set of tools needed to imp a certain thing. This would require the creation of only a few pages and would give us a space to give general advice on how to improve things particular to each set. The link in the table could just say &quot;Tools for Improvement&quot; and link to a list of possible tools needed to imp plus advice on how best to go about it. What do you think? One small thing I'd like to point out is that I think the image should be centered in the space. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 17:48, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Okay, now it adds a third line saying &quot;Select submenu Create &gt; Group-param&quot; if the parameter group is given. The text &quot;select submenu&quot; could be replaced by something different. I also merged skill and improve, so it now has one section &quot;Skill and improvement&quot; which says &quot;Uses skill-param&quot; normally, and &quot;Uses skill-param, but improves as improve-param&quot; if the parameter improve is given. That way we can keep default tools on the skill page (most already have this), and exceptions are free to link anywhere they want. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 18:13, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: I like it quite a bit. Though could you center the image? Otherwise it's nice and tight, which is what we want, I think. Plus, the aesthetic additions you made to it really make it &quot;pop&quot;. I just need to bone up on how to use these parameters then I'd be happy to start editing in this new template. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:18, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: Image should be centered now, but I still think we should wait a day or two for other people to comment (probably just going to be Manny though {{smiley}}). Changing the style and stuff can be done at any time, but if we decide to change the parameter names, we'd have to redo all the existing template use. In the meantime, there's plenty of other stuff to do. The design for the village/homestead/settlement templates is up for grabs. I'm also interested in some discussion on whether we should plan templates for skill pages or not. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 18:34, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: I'd like to try and tackle a bestiary template if that's alright with you. I do think a settlement template would be great as well. After that I'd say all that's needed is a building template. I do think we should be careful and make sure this item template is solid, because in my mind all templates should be stylistically consistent. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:51, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> Might I recommend a section on decay rates, which can be filled later? Pinkdaisy was kind enough to tell me what she knew, in terms of real time: Mortar is &quot;mere minutes.&quot; Food is every 4-6 hours. Logs, rock shards, walls, fences buildings are daily. Tools are weekly. Ovens and forges are 2-4 weeks, at a guess. --[[User:Thorgot|Thorgot]] 02:04, 29 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : I would say this fits better in the main body of the article. It is not something we can record accurately, and the template is intended for the core information. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 14:34, 29 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> The category thing displays as &lt;nowiki&gt; [[Category:&lt;/nowiki&gt;[[weapon smithing]]&lt;nowiki&gt; items]] &lt;/nowiki&gt; here, I'm not sure how to fix that. Maybe this should be optional btw, things like [[milk]] or the [[yoyo]] would be getting it's own category. [[User:Manny|Manny]] 05:01, 29 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : I fixed the category issue. The lonely items would indeed be getting their own category, but that's a consequence of them being the only items from their skill. There may be more later, and it doesn't cost us anything to categorize them when the template does it automatically. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 14:34, 29 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: Allright. Is the template ready to be used now? {{smiley}} --[[User:Manny|Manny]] 15:45, 31 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: Assuming nobody's burning in with discontent over the parameter names, I'd say we're ready to go. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 17:00, 31 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: I'm all for it. Thanks for putting the really nice finishing touches on this idea, Dashiva. I think this will increase the quality of this wiki tenfold. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:22, 31 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> == Issues ==<br /> <br /> Some observations I made checking out the template in action.<br /> <br /> * The item categories will now be filled automatically. Maybe we should take the obvious step and replace their page text with a template as well? Since the item template automatically categorizes items, it also seems proper to change the notice on how to add items to the category.<br /> * Should the item template also add everything to Category:Items?<br /> * Some items can be created with A on B, and B on A. Other items only work one way, and some items like large anvil cannot be used as the active item, ever. My personal inclination is to only list the &quot;right&quot; way (tool active, material right-clicked) even if the reverse works as well.<br /> * Should the template add pages to e.g. Category:Items_missing_skill_classification, Category:Items_missing_create_menu_group, or similar? That would make it easier add a partial template and fix it later, rather than having to research everything up front.<br /> <br /> Let's hear it. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 10:04, 1 September 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> :: My thoughts: First: I like the idea of revamping category pages, but I don't really understand how much work this will entail. If it's a quick fix it seems logical to fix it all at once while we're looking at it anyway<br /> <br /> :: Second: Yes, absolutely. Though we sort of have to stay diligent to make sure that erroneous items aren't added to the wrong categories.<br /> <br /> :: Third: I don't see the need to list a second way if it's possible. I agree with you that we should pick the &quot;right&quot; way and stick with it.<br /> <br /> :: Fourth: I guess my understanding of how these parse function templates works isn't deep enough to really have an opinion on that. How does this work?<br /> <br /> :: --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 11:46, 1 September 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: 1) I've added a prototype of the item category template. It needs another extension installed, or alternatively we can provide the skill name as an input parameter every time. I'll talk to Egal about it. 2) Added Category:Items to the template. 4) Any template missing at least one of active,passive,group,materials,result,skill will be added to Category:Incomplete_item_templates. 5) I have also added support for the special value &quot;no&quot; for materials (items that don't need finishing) and improve (items that cannot be improved).<br /> <br /> ::: New issue: What about items that aren't obtained by crafting? - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 07:13, 2 September 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: Those do not need a template I guess. None of the fields in the current template applies to them. --[[User:Manny|Manny]] 07:30, 2 September 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> &lt;b&gt;(Vowels and plurals)&lt;/b&gt; I've noticed that the sentence structure of the active and passive items uses &quot;a&quot; assuming singular. Yet things like [[small nails]] are really singular only as far as the game is concerned. I guess we could append &quot;handful of&quot; to make the sentence look right. Also, of course, if the active or passive item start with a vowel the article will be incorrect and should be &quot;an&quot; not &quot;a&quot;. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 12:41, 2 September 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> == Images ==<br /> <br /> [[User:Lainiwakura|Lainiwakura]] said on Template:Item: Could pass a variable here to choose image format?<br /> <br /> Also set me thinking about the actual images. Would it be the icon or the rendered model? What is the benefit of including an image? Who would create them? - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 06:15, 2 September 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> I have also added an image parameter to allow arbitrary file names. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 06:52, 2 September 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Rendered models, ppl tend to like to see how stuff looks in-game. See here for an example image: http://www.wurmonline.com/wiki/index.php/Image:Pickaxe.png. Anyone could make them. --[[User:Manny|Manny]] 06:56, 2 September 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: Can you use another if statement for these? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;_item.jpg/.png/_item.png/.jpg&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; ...I've forgotten how to do it. :P &lt;p&gt;&lt;small&gt;--http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/8964/duckieta2.gif[[User:Lainiwakura|Lain Iwakura]] 09:35, 2 September 2007 (CDT)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Settlement_talk:Template_Sandbox&diff=25534 2007-09-02T17:41:03Z

<p>Hephaestus: /* Issues */</p> <hr /> <div>I was thinking that for pages on just about everything covering any kind of resource or building process (like 80% of this wiki) are sort of ugly and they don't flow well. They are, however, quite consistent which is good. If you browse on over the [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Jeweler%27s_Workshop Dwarf Fortress wiki], you'll see nice template boxes on the right hand side that provide a sort of &quot;just the facts&quot; view of several different categories of things. Now DF and Wurm don't have a lot in common, but there is one thing that binds them: they're both games about stuff. I was thinking that designing templates for many of our &quot;stuff-related&quot; pages would really jazz up this wiki and make it more functional. It would provide easy at a glance info in the box, leaving the rest of the page to discuss quirks, advice, or general discussion on that item/building.<br /> <br /> Anyway, I created this page for tinkering with templates to see if I or any of you can come up with something that looks nice and works.<br /> --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:00, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> Also, if you guys think it's cool, I'll make a trial template page and a fake item entry to tinker around with the templates.<br /> --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:40, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Let's try to keep it to one set of pages. One template (e.g. [[Template:Test]]) and one page to use it one (e.g. this page) is enough, any more extensive testing fits better as a subpage of your user page. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 15:39, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: At current, I have made 3 pages including this one with no plans to make any other. You're right though in that one page, [[TestItem]] can be done away with and I can test the results of the template tinkering on this page. Overall, I'm more interested in what people think of this idea in general. To me, it would make this wiki so much more tidy and easy to read, but I'm not interested in foisting my aesthetic onto others if they don't want it. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:46, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: It feels strange, but then again it usually does when something new comes along, it will probably grow onto people. On the other hand I'm no wiki-admin, so I'm not in charge to do such decisions ^_^ --[[User:Steffel|Steffe]] 21:19, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: Well, if you want to check it out, I plugged the information for a hatchet into [[TestItem]]. I'll probably be making up a test image that should be used as a standard for such a template. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 22:08, 21 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: Hmm, I kinda like the old (current) version better, it feels so empty with the template-version :/ Then again, it's just that, a test so far. --[[User:Steffel|Steffe]] 19:55, 22 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::::: Well, I agree with you. But isn't it funny how condensed the information can be? I guess my point is that most of these wiki articles are too sparse. I've personally come across about 3/4 of the pages that need more information. Just the facts doesn't always do it. I guess the point of the template is to get &quot;just the facts&quot; off to the side and easy to spot so that we can maybe spend more time on more in depth information. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 21:43, 22 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> (Skipping indentation) I think the core issue here is that usually '''there is no in-depth information'''. We have a huge amount of pages whose only unique information can be reduced to about five lines fitting inside a box: The name of the result item, the two items to combine, the items needed to complete it, and the skill used. Everything else is either redundant or fluff.<br /> <br /> I've been thinking about introducing template boxes myself, so I support this measure. I see three main benefits. 1) A consistent view of the core information. 2) Getting rid of redundancy. 3) By cleaning up the pages, it becomes visually obvious that there's room for (and need for) in-depth information.<br /> <br /> I would have adjusted the template some, but I'm still waiting for Egal to add the parserfunctions extension. Also moved the showcase to this page. Makes little sense to use the talk page of a different article from the one we're testing in. :) - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 15:46, 23 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Thanks for the much needed input Dashiva. I agree with you on almost all counts. I do agree that we need to keep things concise, but many pages are more than a few degrees shy of concise. For example, the other day I made my first dirt mound and I realized that the wiki didn't mention that you need a second kindling to start the pile. Also, there was no indication of what affected the output of the pile. There are lots of pages like that. Just because information doesn't fall within the template box doesn't mean it's not crucial. That being said, I think critical mass with the template box would have the outside-of-box text filling up the space to the left of the box and maybe a bit below, but not too much.<br /> <br /> :Template boxes also, as I've said, allow for easier parsing of critical information for quick reference. I also believe that the sparsity of info on the current wiki pages is stylistically negative as very little info tends to get spread over broad expanses of real estate. There are some pages that have no need of much in depth info, so even these pages would benefit from condensing into such a consistent box to make the info more readable. I'm hoping to maybe tweak the template box a little (I'm thinking of merging the image slot and the result slot because they really are redundant) then maybe meshing them into item entries. What do you think? I may also start working on a building template here that serves much the same function, but geared towards information relevant to buildings. Having gone through many of the entries for both items and buildings I find that most entries &lt;i&gt;are not&lt;/i&gt; consistent as I had initially thought. and need to be cleaned up as well. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 14:36, 24 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> === Implementation ===<br /> Since there were no major objections, I went ahead and started putting the template box into various item entries. I assume the work will be long and tedious. Any brave soul out there care to help me?<br /> <br /> In the future I'd also like to consider Bestiary templates, building templates, and some others. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 22:52, 26 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :Some pages such as [[carving knife]] and [[lantern]] have improvement(-tools) sections. Should these be part of the template? [[User:Manny|Manny]] 08:54, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: I was kind of wondering that myself. Since the tools used to imp most things are common to only a few major categories, to include them on every item entry would be redundant. I'm thinking maybe some kind of link to the improvement tool set? Then again, we could edit the various skills entries to include what tools are used when improving in that area. I do think that putting them into the template box is a bit clunky, but maybe there's a graceful way. What do you think? --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 09:40, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: I suppose listing the improvement method on the skill pages should be enough. Any exception to the normal improvement method should be mentioned on the item page itself. [[User:Manny|Manny]] 10:00, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : It's good to see everyone's so eager to get started, but please hold your (so far unimplemented) horses. Egal finally implemented ParserFunctions, so I have in mind to tinker quite a bit with the templates now. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 16:18, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: Well, some of us have already started, but for now we can put the brakes on. What are your plans? I mean can't you tinker with the templates even after we've template-ized the pages or do you have something more drastic in mind? --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:36, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: Check out what I did to [[Template:Test]] (demoed on this page) for a basic idea. We want to remove as much redundancy as possible, especially the &quot;method&quot; explanation apart from the actual items. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 16:46, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: Aesthetically I like what you did very much. However, and speaking of redundancy, doesn't it seem redundant to list a skill twice in a row when talking about improving? Is there a way we can indicate that making an item relies on a skill as well as the tools that belong to that skill set to improve? I do worry that the method section may have been tightened up too much. While it was kind of bloated, there was a use. When confronted with the act of using an iron lump on a large anvil there may be two dozen choices in 4 menus available. For clarity's sake, I think it would be nice to somehow concisely indicate the path down that tree. Again, the old way was a bit bulky and not at all concise. I'm hoping we can come up with something new. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:59, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: That's what discussion is for. I agree that having the skill listed twice seems redundant, I did it that way to allow for exceptions. However, it's also possible to hide that entire section unless there is an exception. Adding the create category is also just a matter of including new parameters. We could do &quot;Select Create / {{{group}}} / {{{name}}}&quot; or &quot;Select Create / {{{create}}}&quot; or some other variation. Which would you prefer? - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 17:14, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> (new indent) I think just Create&gt;Group is good but only for those entries where there are a ton of choice. I think just the way you have it is perfect for most things. Also, I prefer to use &quot;&gt;&quot; simply because that's the symbol the game uses. I don't know if that makes for any html or wiki wonkiness. One thing I was thinking was to change &quot;Additional materials&quot; section back to &quot;Tools required&quot; that way we could always put a link to the set of tools needed to imp a certain thing. This would require the creation of only a few pages and would give us a space to give general advice on how to improve things particular to each set. The link in the table could just say &quot;Tools for Improvement&quot; and link to a list of possible tools needed to imp plus advice on how best to go about it. What do you think? One small thing I'd like to point out is that I think the image should be centered in the space. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 17:48, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Okay, now it adds a third line saying &quot;Select submenu Create &gt; Group-param&quot; if the parameter group is given. The text &quot;select submenu&quot; could be replaced by something different. I also merged skill and improve, so it now has one section &quot;Skill and improvement&quot; which says &quot;Uses skill-param&quot; normally, and &quot;Uses skill-param, but improves as improve-param&quot; if the parameter improve is given. That way we can keep default tools on the skill page (most already have this), and exceptions are free to link anywhere they want. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 18:13, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: I like it quite a bit. Though could you center the image? Otherwise it's nice and tight, which is what we want, I think. Plus, the aesthetic additions you made to it really make it &quot;pop&quot;. I just need to bone up on how to use these parameters then I'd be happy to start editing in this new template. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:18, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: Image should be centered now, but I still think we should wait a day or two for other people to comment (probably just going to be Manny though {{smiley}}). Changing the style and stuff can be done at any time, but if we decide to change the parameter names, we'd have to redo all the existing template use. In the meantime, there's plenty of other stuff to do. The design for the village/homestead/settlement templates is up for grabs. I'm also interested in some discussion on whether we should plan templates for skill pages or not. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 18:34, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: I'd like to try and tackle a bestiary template if that's alright with you. I do think a settlement template would be great as well. After that I'd say all that's needed is a building template. I do think we should be careful and make sure this item template is solid, because in my mind all templates should be stylistically consistent. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:51, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> Might I recommend a section on decay rates, which can be filled later? Pinkdaisy was kind enough to tell me what she knew, in terms of real time: Mortar is &quot;mere minutes.&quot; Food is every 4-6 hours. Logs, rock shards, walls, fences buildings are daily. Tools are weekly. Ovens and forges are 2-4 weeks, at a guess. --[[User:Thorgot|Thorgot]] 02:04, 29 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : I would say this fits better in the main body of the article. It is not something we can record accurately, and the template is intended for the core information. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 14:34, 29 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> The category thing displays as &lt;nowiki&gt; [[Category:&lt;/nowiki&gt;[[weapon smithing]]&lt;nowiki&gt; items]] &lt;/nowiki&gt; here, I'm not sure how to fix that. Maybe this should be optional btw, things like [[milk]] or the [[yoyo]] would be getting it's own category. [[User:Manny|Manny]] 05:01, 29 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : I fixed the category issue. The lonely items would indeed be getting their own category, but that's a consequence of them being the only items from their skill. There may be more later, and it doesn't cost us anything to categorize them when the template does it automatically. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 14:34, 29 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: Allright. Is the template ready to be used now? {{smiley}} --[[User:Manny|Manny]] 15:45, 31 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: Assuming nobody's burning in with discontent over the parameter names, I'd say we're ready to go. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 17:00, 31 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: I'm all for it. Thanks for putting the really nice finishing touches on this idea, Dashiva. I think this will increase the quality of this wiki tenfold. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:22, 31 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> == Issues ==<br /> <br /> Some observations I made checking out the template in action.<br /> <br /> * The item categories will now be filled automatically. Maybe we should take the obvious step and replace their page text with a template as well? Since the item template automatically categorizes items, it also seems proper to change the notice on how to add items to the category.<br /> * Should the item template also add everything to Category:Items?<br /> * Some items can be created with A on B, and B on A. Other items only work one way, and some items like large anvil cannot be used as the active item, ever. My personal inclination is to only list the &quot;right&quot; way (tool active, material right-clicked) even if the reverse works as well.<br /> * Should the template add pages to e.g. Category:Items_missing_skill_classification, Category:Items_missing_create_menu_group, or similar? That would make it easier add a partial template and fix it later, rather than having to research everything up front.<br /> <br /> Let's hear it. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 10:04, 1 September 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> :: My thoughts: First: I like the idea of revamping category pages, but I don't really understand how much work this will entail. If it's a quick fix it seems logical to fix it all at once while we're looking at it anyway<br /> <br /> :: Second: Yes, absolutely. Though we sort of have to stay diligent to make sure that erroneous items aren't added to the wrong categories.<br /> <br /> :: Third: I don't see the need to list a second way if it's possible. I agree with you that we should pick the &quot;right&quot; way and stick with it.<br /> <br /> :: Fourth: I guess my understanding of how these parse function templates works isn't deep enough to really have an opinion on that. How does this work?<br /> <br /> :: --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 11:46, 1 September 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: 1) I've added a prototype of the item category template. It needs another extension installed, or alternatively we can provide the skill name as an input parameter every time. I'll talk to Egal about it. 2) Added Category:Items to the template. 4) Any template missing at least one of active,passive,group,materials,result,skill will be added to Category:Incomplete_item_templates. 5) I have also added support for the special value &quot;no&quot; for materials (items that don't need finishing) and improve (items that cannot be improved).<br /> <br /> ::: New issue: What about items that aren't obtained by crafting? - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 07:13, 2 September 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: Those do not need a template I guess. None of the fields in the current template applies to them. --[[User:Manny|Manny]] 07:30, 2 September 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> &lt;b&gt;(Vowels and plurals)&lt;/b&gt; I've notices that the sentence structure of the active and passive items uses &quot;a&quot; assuming singular. Yet things like [[small nails]] are really singular only as far as the game is concerned. I guess we could append &quot;handful of&quot; to make the sentence look right. Also, of course, if the active or passive item start with a vowel the article will be incorrect and should be &quot;an&quot; not &quot;a&quot;. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 12:41, 2 September 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> == Images ==<br /> <br /> [[User:Lainiwakura|Lainiwakura]] said on Template:Item: Could pass a variable here to choose image format?<br /> <br /> Also set me thinking about the actual images. Would it be the icon or the rendered model? What is the benefit of including an image? Who would create them? - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 06:15, 2 September 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> I have also added an image parameter to allow arbitrary file names. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 06:52, 2 September 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Rendered models, ppl tend to like to see how stuff looks in-game. See here for an example image: http://www.wurmonline.com/wiki/index.php/Image:Pickaxe.png. Anyone could make them. --[[User:Manny|Manny]] 06:56, 2 September 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: Can you use another if statement for these? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;_item.jpg/.png/_item.png/.jpg&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; ...I've forgotten how to do it. :P &lt;p&gt;&lt;small&gt;--http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/8964/duckieta2.gif[[User:Lainiwakura|Lain Iwakura]] 09:35, 2 September 2007 (CDT)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Foot_board&diff=25533 2007-09-02T17:37:12Z

<p>Hephaestus: template -- guessing at final weight</p> <hr /> <div>[[CDB|Main]] / [[Skills]] / [[Carpentry]] / [[Fine carpentry]] / '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> {{Item<br /> |name=Foot board<br /> |active=[[small nails]]<br /> |passive=[[plank]]<br /> |materials=*1 [[plank]]<br /> *2 [[shaft]] (1 kg each)<br /> |result=* '''{{PAGENAME}}''' - (4.2 kg)<br /> * Unfinished '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> |skill=fine carpentry}}<br /> <br /> === Description ===<br /> For attaching to unfinished [[bed]].<br /> <br /> [[Category:Fine carpentry items]]<br /> [[Category:Babel/F]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Lamp_head&diff=25532 2007-09-02T17:31:52Z

<p>Hephaestus: </p> <hr /> <div>[[CDB|Main]] / [[Skills]] / [[Smithing]] / [[Blacksmithing]] / '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> {{Item<br /> |name=Lamp head<br /> |active=[[copper lump]] (0.8 kg) or an [[iron lump]] (0.8 kg)<br /> |passive=[[large anvil]]<br /> |group=Miscellaneous<br /> |materials=no<br /> |result=* '''{{PAGENAME}}''' - (0.8 kg)<br /> * Unfinished '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> |skill=blacksmithing}}<br /> <br /> == Description == <br /> Used for making [[street lamp]]s<br /> <br /> <br /> [[Category:Blacksmithing items]]<br /> [[Category:Babel/L]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Lamp_head&diff=25531 2007-09-02T17:31:03Z

<p>Hephaestus: template</p> <hr /> <div>[[CDB|Main]] / [[Skills]] / [[Smithing]] / [[Blacksmithing]] / '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> {{Item<br /> |name=Lamp head<br /> |active=[[copper lump]] (0.8 kg) or an [[iron lump]] (0.8 kg)<br /> |passive=[[large anvil]]<br /> |category=Miscellaneous<br /> |materials=no<br /> |result=* '''{{PAGENAME}}''' - (0.8 kg)<br /> * Unfinished '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> |skill=blacksmithing}}<br /> <br /> == Description == <br /> Used for making [[street lamp]]s<br /> <br /> <br /> [[Category:Blacksmithing items]]<br /> [[Category:Babel/L]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=War_arrow_head&diff=25527 2007-09-02T17:19:21Z

<p>Hephaestus: template</p> <hr /> <div>[[CDB|Main]] / [[Skills]] / [[Smithing]] / [[Weapon smithing]] / [[Weapon heads smithing]] / '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> {{Item<br /> |name=War arrow head<br /> |active=[[iron lump]] (0.1 kg)<br /> |passive=[[small anvil]]<br /> |group=Miscellaneous<br /> |materials=no<br /> |result=* '''{{PAGENAME}}''' - (0.0 kg)<br /> * Unfinished '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> |skill=Weapon heads smithing<br /> }}<br /> <br /> == Description ==<br /> A war arrow head used for creating [[war arrow]]s, together with an [[arrow shaft]]. It is best made out of [[iron]].<br /> <br /> <br /> [[Category:Weapon heads smithing items]]<br /> [[Category:Babel/W]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Chain_coif&diff=25523 2007-09-02T17:08:58Z

<p>Hephaestus: </p> <hr /> <div>[[CDB|Main]] / [[Skills]] / [[Smithing]] / [[Armour smithing]] / [[Chain armour smithing]] / '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> <br /> {{Item<br /> |name=Chain Coif<br /> |active=[[armour chains]] (0.44 kg)<br /> |passive=[[large anvil]]<br /> |group=Armor<br /> |materials=no<br /> |result=* '''{{PAGENAME}}''' - (0.44 kg)<br /> * Unfinished '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> |skill=[[Chain armour smithing]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> == Description ==<br /> Chain armor for your head, so you won't get injured there as often. Like all armor, it gradually takes damage in combat. It does not protect the eyes.<br /> <br /> Chain armour generally provides a middle ground base defense with moderate penalties to speed. The wearer will walk moderately slower and have a moderately slower attack speed. Chain armor offers a defense bonus vs stabbing damage, while the equipment itself receives extra damage from stabbing. <br /> <br /> [[Category:Chain armour]] [[Category:Babel/C]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Saw&diff=25522 2007-09-02T17:08:10Z

<p>Hephaestus: </p> <hr /> <div>[[CDB|Main]] / [[Skills]] / [[Smithing]] / [[Blacksmithing]] / '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> <br /> {{Item<br /> |name=Saw<br /> |active=[[iron lump]] (1.2 kg)<br /> |passive=[[small anvil]]<br /> |group=Tools<br /> |materials=no<br /> |result=* '''{{PAGENAME}}''' - (1.2 kg)<br /> * Unfinished '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> |skill=[[Blacksmithing]]}}<br /> <br /> == Description ==<br /> Your basic metal saw. Used to make [[planks]] out of [[log]]s with.<br /> <br /> [[Category:Blacksmithing items]]<br /> [[Category:Tools]]<br /> [[Category:Babel/S]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Saw&diff=25521 2007-09-02T17:07:35Z

<p>Hephaestus: template</p> <hr /> <div>[[CDB|Main]] / [[Skills]] / [[Smithing]] / [[Blacksmithing]] / '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> <br /> {{Item<br /> |name=Saw<br /> |active=[[iron lump]] (1.2 kg)<br /> |passive=[[small anvil]]<br /> |group=Tools<br /> |materials=no<br /> |result=* '''{{PAGENAME}}''' - (2.0 kg)<br /> * Unfinished '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> |skill=[[Blacksmithing]]}}<br /> <br /> == Description ==<br /> Your basic metal saw. Used to make [[planks]] out of [[log]]s with.<br /> <br /> [[Category:Blacksmithing items]]<br /> [[Category:Tools]]<br /> [[Category:Babel/S]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Chain_coif&diff=25516 2007-09-02T17:00:38Z

<p>Hephaestus: </p> <hr /> <div>[[CDB|Main]] / [[Skills]] / [[Smithing]] / [[Armour smithing]] / [[Chain armour smithing]] / '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> <br /> {{Item<br /> |name=Chain Coif<br /> |active=[[armour chains]] (0.44 kg)<br /> |passive=[[large anvil]]<br /> |group=Armor<br /> |materials=N/A<br /> |result=* '''{{PAGENAME}}''' - (2.0 kg)<br /> * Unfinished '''{{PAGENAME}}'''<br /> |skill=[[Chain armour smithing]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> == Description ==<br /> Chain armor for your head, so you won't get injured there as often. Like all armor, it gradually takes damage in combat. It does not protect the eyes.<br /> <br /> Chain armour generally provides a middle ground base defense with moderate penalties to speed. The wearer will walk moderately slower and have a moderately slower attack speed. Chain armor offers a defense bonus vs stabbing damage, while the equipment itself receives extra damage from stabbing. <br /> <br /> [[Category:Chain armour]] [[Category:Babel/C]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Settlement_talk:Template_Sandbox&diff=25425 2007-09-01T16:46:56Z

<p>Hephaestus: /* Issues */</p> <hr /> <div>I was thinking that for pages on just about everything covering any kind of resource or building process (like 80% of this wiki) are sort of ugly and they don't flow well. They are, however, quite consistent which is good. If you browse on over the [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Jeweler%27s_Workshop Dwarf Fortress wiki], you'll see nice template boxes on the right hand side that provide a sort of &quot;just the facts&quot; view of several different categories of things. Now DF and Wurm don't have a lot in common, but there is one thing that binds them: they're both games about stuff. I was thinking that designing templates for many of our &quot;stuff-related&quot; pages would really jazz up this wiki and make it more functional. It would provide easy at a glance info in the box, leaving the rest of the page to discuss quirks, advice, or general discussion on that item/building.<br /> <br /> Anyway, I created this page for tinkering with templates to see if I or any of you can come up with something that looks nice and works.<br /> --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:00, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> Also, if you guys think it's cool, I'll make a trial template page and a fake item entry to tinker around with the templates.<br /> --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:40, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Let's try to keep it to one set of pages. One template (e.g. [[Template:Test]]) and one page to use it one (e.g. this page) is enough, any more extensive testing fits better as a subpage of your user page. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 15:39, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: At current, I have made 3 pages including this one with no plans to make any other. You're right though in that one page, [[TestItem]] can be done away with and I can test the results of the template tinkering on this page. Overall, I'm more interested in what people think of this idea in general. To me, it would make this wiki so much more tidy and easy to read, but I'm not interested in foisting my aesthetic onto others if they don't want it. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:46, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: It feels strange, but then again it usually does when something new comes along, it will probably grow onto people. On the other hand I'm no wiki-admin, so I'm not in charge to do such decisions ^_^ --[[User:Steffel|Steffe]] 21:19, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: Well, if you want to check it out, I plugged the information for a hatchet into [[TestItem]]. I'll probably be making up a test image that should be used as a standard for such a template. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 22:08, 21 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: Hmm, I kinda like the old (current) version better, it feels so empty with the template-version :/ Then again, it's just that, a test so far. --[[User:Steffel|Steffe]] 19:55, 22 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::::: Well, I agree with you. But isn't it funny how condensed the information can be? I guess my point is that most of these wiki articles are too sparse. I've personally come across about 3/4 of the pages that need more information. Just the facts doesn't always do it. I guess the point of the template is to get &quot;just the facts&quot; off to the side and easy to spot so that we can maybe spend more time on more in depth information. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 21:43, 22 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> (Skipping indentation) I think the core issue here is that usually '''there is no in-depth information'''. We have a huge amount of pages whose only unique information can be reduced to about five lines fitting inside a box: The name of the result item, the two items to combine, the items needed to complete it, and the skill used. Everything else is either redundant or fluff.<br /> <br /> I've been thinking about introducing template boxes myself, so I support this measure. I see three main benefits. 1) A consistent view of the core information. 2) Getting rid of redundancy. 3) By cleaning up the pages, it becomes visually obvious that there's room for (and need for) in-depth information.<br /> <br /> I would have adjusted the template some, but I'm still waiting for Egal to add the parserfunctions extension. Also moved the showcase to this page. Makes little sense to use the talk page of a different article from the one we're testing in. :) - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 15:46, 23 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Thanks for the much needed input Dashiva. I agree with you on almost all counts. I do agree that we need to keep things concise, but many pages are more than a few degrees shy of concise. For example, the other day I made my first dirt mound and I realized that the wiki didn't mention that you need a second kindling to start the pile. Also, there was no indication of what affected the output of the pile. There are lots of pages like that. Just because information doesn't fall within the template box doesn't mean it's not crucial. That being said, I think critical mass with the template box would have the outside-of-box text filling up the space to the left of the box and maybe a bit below, but not too much.<br /> <br /> :Template boxes also, as I've said, allow for easier parsing of critical information for quick reference. I also believe that the sparsity of info on the current wiki pages is stylistically negative as very little info tends to get spread over broad expanses of real estate. There are some pages that have no need of much in depth info, so even these pages would benefit from condensing into such a consistent box to make the info more readable. I'm hoping to maybe tweak the template box a little (I'm thinking of merging the image slot and the result slot because they really are redundant) then maybe meshing them into item entries. What do you think? I may also start working on a building template here that serves much the same function, but geared towards information relevant to buildings. Having gone through many of the entries for both items and buildings I find that most entries &lt;i&gt;are not&lt;/i&gt; consistent as I had initially thought. and need to be cleaned up as well. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 14:36, 24 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> === Implementation ===<br /> Since there were no major objections, I went ahead and started putting the template box into various item entries. I assume the work will be long and tedious. Any brave soul out there care to help me?<br /> <br /> In the future I'd also like to consider Bestiary templates, building templates, and some others. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 22:52, 26 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :Some pages such as [[carving knife]] and [[lantern]] have improvement(-tools) sections. Should these be part of the template? [[User:Manny|Manny]] 08:54, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: I was kind of wondering that myself. Since the tools used to imp most things are common to only a few major categories, to include them on every item entry would be redundant. I'm thinking maybe some kind of link to the improvement tool set? Then again, we could edit the various skills entries to include what tools are used when improving in that area. I do think that putting them into the template box is a bit clunky, but maybe there's a graceful way. What do you think? --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 09:40, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: I suppose listing the improvement method on the skill pages should be enough. Any exception to the normal improvement method should be mentioned on the item page itself. [[User:Manny|Manny]] 10:00, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : It's good to see everyone's so eager to get started, but please hold your (so far unimplemented) horses. Egal finally implemented ParserFunctions, so I have in mind to tinker quite a bit with the templates now. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 16:18, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: Well, some of us have already started, but for now we can put the brakes on. What are your plans? I mean can't you tinker with the templates even after we've template-ized the pages or do you have something more drastic in mind? --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:36, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: Check out what I did to [[Template:Test]] (demoed on this page) for a basic idea. We want to remove as much redundancy as possible, especially the &quot;method&quot; explanation apart from the actual items. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 16:46, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: Aesthetically I like what you did very much. However, and speaking of redundancy, doesn't it seem redundant to list a skill twice in a row when talking about improving? Is there a way we can indicate that making an item relies on a skill as well as the tools that belong to that skill set to improve? I do worry that the method section may have been tightened up too much. While it was kind of bloated, there was a use. When confronted with the act of using an iron lump on a large anvil there may be two dozen choices in 4 menus available. For clarity's sake, I think it would be nice to somehow concisely indicate the path down that tree. Again, the old way was a bit bulky and not at all concise. I'm hoping we can come up with something new. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:59, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: That's what discussion is for. I agree that having the skill listed twice seems redundant, I did it that way to allow for exceptions. However, it's also possible to hide that entire section unless there is an exception. Adding the create category is also just a matter of including new parameters. We could do &quot;Select Create / {{{group}}} / {{{name}}}&quot; or &quot;Select Create / {{{create}}}&quot; or some other variation. Which would you prefer? - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 17:14, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> (new indent) I think just Create&gt;Group is good but only for those entries where there are a ton of choice. I think just the way you have it is perfect for most things. Also, I prefer to use &quot;&gt;&quot; simply because that's the symbol the game uses. I don't know if that makes for any html or wiki wonkiness. One thing I was thinking was to change &quot;Additional materials&quot; section back to &quot;Tools required&quot; that way we could always put a link to the set of tools needed to imp a certain thing. This would require the creation of only a few pages and would give us a space to give general advice on how to improve things particular to each set. The link in the table could just say &quot;Tools for Improvement&quot; and link to a list of possible tools needed to imp plus advice on how best to go about it. What do you think? One small thing I'd like to point out is that I think the image should be centered in the space. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 17:48, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Okay, now it adds a third line saying &quot;Select submenu Create &gt; Group-param&quot; if the parameter group is given. The text &quot;select submenu&quot; could be replaced by something different. I also merged skill and improve, so it now has one section &quot;Skill and improvement&quot; which says &quot;Uses skill-param&quot; normally, and &quot;Uses skill-param, but improves as improve-param&quot; if the parameter improve is given. That way we can keep default tools on the skill page (most already have this), and exceptions are free to link anywhere they want. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 18:13, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: I like it quite a bit. Though could you center the image? Otherwise it's nice and tight, which is what we want, I think. Plus, the aesthetic additions you made to it really make it &quot;pop&quot;. I just need to bone up on how to use these parameters then I'd be happy to start editing in this new template. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:18, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: Image should be centered now, but I still think we should wait a day or two for other people to comment (probably just going to be Manny though {{smiley}}). Changing the style and stuff can be done at any time, but if we decide to change the parameter names, we'd have to redo all the existing template use. In the meantime, there's plenty of other stuff to do. The design for the village/homestead/settlement templates is up for grabs. I'm also interested in some discussion on whether we should plan templates for skill pages or not. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 18:34, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: I'd like to try and tackle a bestiary template if that's alright with you. I do think a settlement template would be great as well. After that I'd say all that's needed is a building template. I do think we should be careful and make sure this item template is solid, because in my mind all templates should be stylistically consistent. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:51, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> Might I recommend a section on decay rates, which can be filled later? Pinkdaisy was kind enough to tell me what she knew, in terms of real time: Mortar is &quot;mere minutes.&quot; Food is every 4-6 hours. Logs, rock shards, walls, fences buildings are daily. Tools are weekly. Ovens and forges are 2-4 weeks, at a guess. --[[User:Thorgot|Thorgot]] 02:04, 29 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : I would say this fits better in the main body of the article. It is not something we can record accurately, and the template is intended for the core information. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 14:34, 29 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> The category thing displays as &lt;nowiki&gt; [[Category:&lt;/nowiki&gt;[[weapon smithing]]&lt;nowiki&gt; items]] &lt;/nowiki&gt; here, I'm not sure how to fix that. Maybe this should be optional btw, things like [[milk]] or the [[yoyo]] would be getting it's own category. [[User:Manny|Manny]] 05:01, 29 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : I fixed the category issue. The lonely items would indeed be getting their own category, but that's a consequence of them being the only items from their skill. There may be more later, and it doesn't cost us anything to categorize them when the template does it automatically. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 14:34, 29 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: Allright. Is the template ready to be used now? {{smiley}} --[[User:Manny|Manny]] 15:45, 31 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: Assuming nobody's burning in with discontent over the parameter names, I'd say we're ready to go. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 17:00, 31 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: I'm all for it. Thanks for putting the really nice finishing touches on this idea, Dashiva. I think this will increase the quality of this wiki tenfold. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:22, 31 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> == Issues ==<br /> <br /> Some observations I made checking out the template in action.<br /> <br /> * The item categories will now be filled automatically. Maybe we should take the obvious step and replace their page text with a template as well? Since the item template automatically categorizes items, it also seems proper to change the notice on how to add items to the category.<br /> * Should the item template also add everything to Category:Items?<br /> * Some items can be created with A on B, and B on A. Other items only work one way, and some items like large anvil cannot be used as the active item, ever. My personal inclination is to only list the &quot;right&quot; way (tool active, material right-clicked) even if the reverse works as well.<br /> * Should the template add pages to e.g. Category:Items_missing_skill_classification, Category:Items_missing_create_menu_group, or similar? That would make it easier add a partial template and fix it later, rather than having to research everything up front.<br /> <br /> Let's hear it. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 10:04, 1 September 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> :: My thoughts: First: I like the idea of revamping category pages, but I don't really understand how much work this will entail. If it's a quick fix it seems logical to fix it all at once while we're looking at it anyway<br /> <br /> :: Second: Yes, absolutely. Though we sort of have to stay diligent to make sure that erroneous items aren't added to the wrong categories.<br /> <br /> :: Third: I don't see the need to list a second way if it's possible. I agree with you that we should pick the &quot;right&quot; way and stick with it.<br /> <br /> :: Fourth: I guess my understanding of how these parse function templates works isn't deep enough to really have an opinion on that. How does this work?<br /> <br /> :: --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 11:46, 1 September 2007 (CDT)</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Settlement:Orient_Isles&diff=25383 2007-09-01T00:13:49Z

<p>Hephaestus: </p> <hr /> <div>Orient Isle is a a group of islands that sit well east of Newtown, across the body of water that surrounds Donner's Mountain on the current map, Gold 2 on the Home Server.<br /> <br /> = Purpose =<br /> <br /> Orient Isle has been named simply to give the residents of the area a sense of community so that they may coordinate with each other to make their own individual game lives better as well as the entire state of the Isle.<br /> <br /> === IRC Channel ===<br /> Residents of Orient Isle congregate on the heavenly place IRC network in #OrientIsle. Whether a resident of the area or not, any and all are welcome to join the channel to communicate with the residents for purposes of trade, civic organization, or even just personal chatter.<br /> <br /> To join the IRC channel from within the Wurm client, follow these steps:<br /> # Hit F1 to bring up the console<br /> # Type &quot;IRC&quot; (without quotes) into the console window<br /> # Once the IRC client window is up, type &quot;/join #OrientIsle&quot; (again without the quotes)<br /> <br /> To make your Wurm client automatically log into the channel every time you log in, find the file autorun.txt in your Wurm folder and add the following lines to it:<br /> *IRC<br /> *ircsay /join #OrientIsle<br /> <br /> = People =<br /> <br /> While the social structure of Orient Isle is at present very amorphous, as things grow a loose social hierarchy will emerge. When this happens, you will find a list of people you can contact to become part of the community.<br /> <br /> = Places =<br /> <br /> Currently the Orient Isle region stretches from Steel Bay all the way up to Verdant Isle and encompasses almost every deed in between. This is not static as word of out existence spreads and as our knowledge of geography becomes more complete, thanks largely to [[Kinoss]]'s Map.<br /> <br /> The following settlements are located on the Isle and recognize the region:<br /> <br /> * [[Cheval-blanc]] (HS)</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Settlement:Orient_Isles&diff=25382 2007-09-01T00:13:23Z

<p>Hephaestus: /* Purpose */</p> <hr /> <div>Orient Isle is a landmass (possibly an Island, although that hasn't been conclusively decided yet) that sits well east of Newtown, across the body of water that surrounds Donner's Mountain on the current map, Gold 2 on the Home Server.<br /> <br /> = Purpose =<br /> <br /> Orient Isle has been named simply to give the residents of the area a sense of community so that they may coordinate with each other to make their own individual game lives better as well as the entire state of the Isle.<br /> <br /> === IRC Channel ===<br /> Residents of Orient Isle congregate on the heavenly place IRC network in #OrientIsle. Whether a resident of the area or not, any and all are welcome to join the channel to communicate with the residents for purposes of trade, civic organization, or even just personal chatter.<br /> <br /> To join the IRC channel from within the Wurm client, follow these steps:<br /> # Hit F1 to bring up the console<br /> # Type &quot;IRC&quot; (without quotes) into the console window<br /> # Once the IRC client window is up, type &quot;/join #OrientIsle&quot; (again without the quotes)<br /> <br /> To make your Wurm client automatically log into the channel every time you log in, find the file autorun.txt in your Wurm folder and add the following lines to it:<br /> *IRC<br /> *ircsay /join #OrientIsle<br /> <br /> = People =<br /> <br /> While the social structure of Orient Isle is at present very amorphous, as things grow a loose social hierarchy will emerge. When this happens, you will find a list of people you can contact to become part of the community.<br /> <br /> = Places =<br /> <br /> Currently the Orient Isle region stretches from Steel Bay all the way up to Verdant Isle and encompasses almost every deed in between. This is not static as word of out existence spreads and as our knowledge of geography becomes more complete, thanks largely to [[Kinoss]]'s Map.<br /> <br /> The following settlements are located on the Isle and recognize the region:<br /> <br /> * [[Cheval-blanc]] (HS)</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Settlement:Orient_Isles&diff=25381 2007-09-01T00:09:18Z

<p>Hephaestus: New page: Orient Isle is a landmass (possibly an Island, although that hasn't been conclusively decided yet) that sits well east of Newtown, across the body of water that surrounds Donner's Mountain...</p> <hr /> <div>Orient Isle is a landmass (possibly an Island, although that hasn't been conclusively decided yet) that sits well east of Newtown, across the body of water that surrounds Donner's Mountain on the current map, Gold 2 on the Home Server.<br /> <br /> = Purpose =<br /> <br /> Orient Isle has been named simply to give the residents of the area a sense of community so that they may coordinate with each other to make their own individual game lives better as well as the entire state of the Isle.<br /> <br /> Residents of Orient Isle congregate on the heavenly place IRC network in #OrientIsle. Whether a resident of the area or not, any and all are welcome to join the channel to communicate with the residents for purposes of trade, civic organization, or even just personal chatter.<br /> <br /> = People =<br /> <br /> While the social structure of Orient Isle is at present very amorphous, as things grow a loose social hierarchy will emerge. When this happens, you will find a list of people you can contact to become part of the community.<br /> <br /> = Places =<br /> <br /> Currently the Orient Isle region stretches from Steel Bay all the way up to Verdant Isle and encompasses almost every deed in between. This is not static as word of out existence spreads and as our knowledge of geography becomes more complete, thanks largely to [[Kinoss]]'s Map.<br /> <br /> The following settlements are located on the Isle and recognize the region:<br /> <br /> * [[Cheval-blanc]] (HS)</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Orient_Isle&diff=25380 2007-09-01T00:09:12Z

<p>Hephaestus: Redirecting to Orient Isles</p> <hr /> <div>#redirect [[Orient Isles]]</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Settlement_talk:Template_Sandbox&diff=25379 2007-08-31T23:22:58Z

<p>Hephaestus: /* Implementation */</p> <hr /> <div>I was thinking that for pages on just about everything covering any kind of resource or building process (like 80% of this wiki) are sort of ugly and they don't flow well. They are, however, quite consistent which is good. If you browse on over the [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Jeweler%27s_Workshop Dwarf Fortress wiki], you'll see nice template boxes on the right hand side that provide a sort of &quot;just the facts&quot; view of several different categories of things. Now DF and Wurm don't have a lot in common, but there is one thing that binds them: they're both games about stuff. I was thinking that designing templates for many of our &quot;stuff-related&quot; pages would really jazz up this wiki and make it more functional. It would provide easy at a glance info in the box, leaving the rest of the page to discuss quirks, advice, or general discussion on that item/building.<br /> <br /> Anyway, I created this page for tinkering with templates to see if I or any of you can come up with something that looks nice and works.<br /> --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:00, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> Also, if you guys think it's cool, I'll make a trial template page and a fake item entry to tinker around with the templates.<br /> --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:40, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Let's try to keep it to one set of pages. One template (e.g. [[Template:Test]]) and one page to use it one (e.g. this page) is enough, any more extensive testing fits better as a subpage of your user page. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 15:39, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: At current, I have made 3 pages including this one with no plans to make any other. You're right though in that one page, [[TestItem]] can be done away with and I can test the results of the template tinkering on this page. Overall, I'm more interested in what people think of this idea in general. To me, it would make this wiki so much more tidy and easy to read, but I'm not interested in foisting my aesthetic onto others if they don't want it. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:46, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: It feels strange, but then again it usually does when something new comes along, it will probably grow onto people. On the other hand I'm no wiki-admin, so I'm not in charge to do such decisions ^_^ --[[User:Steffel|Steffe]] 21:19, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: Well, if you want to check it out, I plugged the information for a hatchet into [[TestItem]]. I'll probably be making up a test image that should be used as a standard for such a template. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 22:08, 21 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: Hmm, I kinda like the old (current) version better, it feels so empty with the template-version :/ Then again, it's just that, a test so far. --[[User:Steffel|Steffe]] 19:55, 22 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::::: Well, I agree with you. But isn't it funny how condensed the information can be? I guess my point is that most of these wiki articles are too sparse. I've personally come across about 3/4 of the pages that need more information. Just the facts doesn't always do it. I guess the point of the template is to get &quot;just the facts&quot; off to the side and easy to spot so that we can maybe spend more time on more in depth information. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 21:43, 22 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> (Skipping indentation) I think the core issue here is that usually '''there is no in-depth information'''. We have a huge amount of pages whose only unique information can be reduced to about five lines fitting inside a box: The name of the result item, the two items to combine, the items needed to complete it, and the skill used. Everything else is either redundant or fluff.<br /> <br /> I've been thinking about introducing template boxes myself, so I support this measure. I see three main benefits. 1) A consistent view of the core information. 2) Getting rid of redundancy. 3) By cleaning up the pages, it becomes visually obvious that there's room for (and need for) in-depth information.<br /> <br /> I would have adjusted the template some, but I'm still waiting for Egal to add the parserfunctions extension. Also moved the showcase to this page. Makes little sense to use the talk page of a different article from the one we're testing in. :) - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 15:46, 23 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Thanks for the much needed input Dashiva. I agree with you on almost all counts. I do agree that we need to keep things concise, but many pages are more than a few degrees shy of concise. For example, the other day I made my first dirt mound and I realized that the wiki didn't mention that you need a second kindling to start the pile. Also, there was no indication of what affected the output of the pile. There are lots of pages like that. Just because information doesn't fall within the template box doesn't mean it's not crucial. That being said, I think critical mass with the template box would have the outside-of-box text filling up the space to the left of the box and maybe a bit below, but not too much.<br /> <br /> :Template boxes also, as I've said, allow for easier parsing of critical information for quick reference. I also believe that the sparsity of info on the current wiki pages is stylistically negative as very little info tends to get spread over broad expanses of real estate. There are some pages that have no need of much in depth info, so even these pages would benefit from condensing into such a consistent box to make the info more readable. I'm hoping to maybe tweak the template box a little (I'm thinking of merging the image slot and the result slot because they really are redundant) then maybe meshing them into item entries. What do you think? I may also start working on a building template here that serves much the same function, but geared towards information relevant to buildings. Having gone through many of the entries for both items and buildings I find that most entries &lt;i&gt;are not&lt;/i&gt; consistent as I had initially thought. and need to be cleaned up as well. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 14:36, 24 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> === Implementation ===<br /> Since there were no major objections, I went ahead and started putting the template box into various item entries. I assume the work will be long and tedious. Any brave soul out there care to help me?<br /> <br /> In the future I'd also like to consider Bestiary templates, building templates, and some others. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 22:52, 26 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :Some pages such as [[carving knife]] and [[lantern]] have improvement(-tools) sections. Should these be part of the template? [[User:Manny|Manny]] 08:54, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: I was kind of wondering that myself. Since the tools used to imp most things are common to only a few major categories, to include them on every item entry would be redundant. I'm thinking maybe some kind of link to the improvement tool set? Then again, we could edit the various skills entries to include what tools are used when improving in that area. I do think that putting them into the template box is a bit clunky, but maybe there's a graceful way. What do you think? --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 09:40, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: I suppose listing the improvement method on the skill pages should be enough. Any exception to the normal improvement method should be mentioned on the item page itself. [[User:Manny|Manny]] 10:00, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : It's good to see everyone's so eager to get started, but please hold your (so far unimplemented) horses. Egal finally implemented ParserFunctions, so I have in mind to tinker quite a bit with the templates now. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 16:18, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: Well, some of us have already started, but for now we can put the brakes on. What are your plans? I mean can't you tinker with the templates even after we've template-ized the pages or do you have something more drastic in mind? --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:36, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: Check out what I did to [[Template:Test]] (demoed on this page) for a basic idea. We want to remove as much redundancy as possible, especially the &quot;method&quot; explanation apart from the actual items. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 16:46, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: Aesthetically I like what you did very much. However, and speaking of redundancy, doesn't it seem redundant to list a skill twice in a row when talking about improving? Is there a way we can indicate that making an item relies on a skill as well as the tools that belong to that skill set to improve? I do worry that the method section may have been tightened up too much. While it was kind of bloated, there was a use. When confronted with the act of using an iron lump on a large anvil there may be two dozen choices in 4 menus available. For clarity's sake, I think it would be nice to somehow concisely indicate the path down that tree. Again, the old way was a bit bulky and not at all concise. I'm hoping we can come up with something new. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:59, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: That's what discussion is for. I agree that having the skill listed twice seems redundant, I did it that way to allow for exceptions. However, it's also possible to hide that entire section unless there is an exception. Adding the create category is also just a matter of including new parameters. We could do &quot;Select Create / {{{group}}} / {{{name}}}&quot; or &quot;Select Create / {{{create}}}&quot; or some other variation. Which would you prefer? - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 17:14, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> (new indent) I think just Create&gt;Group is good but only for those entries where there are a ton of choice. I think just the way you have it is perfect for most things. Also, I prefer to use &quot;&gt;&quot; simply because that's the symbol the game uses. I don't know if that makes for any html or wiki wonkiness. One thing I was thinking was to change &quot;Additional materials&quot; section back to &quot;Tools required&quot; that way we could always put a link to the set of tools needed to imp a certain thing. This would require the creation of only a few pages and would give us a space to give general advice on how to improve things particular to each set. The link in the table could just say &quot;Tools for Improvement&quot; and link to a list of possible tools needed to imp plus advice on how best to go about it. What do you think? One small thing I'd like to point out is that I think the image should be centered in the space. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 17:48, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Okay, now it adds a third line saying &quot;Select submenu Create &gt; Group-param&quot; if the parameter group is given. The text &quot;select submenu&quot; could be replaced by something different. I also merged skill and improve, so it now has one section &quot;Skill and improvement&quot; which says &quot;Uses skill-param&quot; normally, and &quot;Uses skill-param, but improves as improve-param&quot; if the parameter improve is given. That way we can keep default tools on the skill page (most already have this), and exceptions are free to link anywhere they want. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 18:13, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: I like it quite a bit. Though could you center the image? Otherwise it's nice and tight, which is what we want, I think. Plus, the aesthetic additions you made to it really make it &quot;pop&quot;. I just need to bone up on how to use these parameters then I'd be happy to start editing in this new template. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:18, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: Image should be centered now, but I still think we should wait a day or two for other people to comment (probably just going to be Manny though {{smiley}}). Changing the style and stuff can be done at any time, but if we decide to change the parameter names, we'd have to redo all the existing template use. In the meantime, there's plenty of other stuff to do. The design for the village/homestead/settlement templates is up for grabs. I'm also interested in some discussion on whether we should plan templates for skill pages or not. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 18:34, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: I'd like to try and tackle a bestiary template if that's alright with you. I do think a settlement template would be great as well. After that I'd say all that's needed is a building template. I do think we should be careful and make sure this item template is solid, because in my mind all templates should be stylistically consistent. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:51, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> Might I recommend a section on decay rates, which can be filled later? Pinkdaisy was kind enough to tell me what she knew, in terms of real time: Mortar is &quot;mere minutes.&quot; Food is every 4-6 hours. Logs, rock shards, walls, fences buildings are daily. Tools are weekly. Ovens and forges are 2-4 weeks, at a guess. --[[User:Thorgot|Thorgot]] 02:04, 29 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : I would say this fits better in the main body of the article. It is not something we can record accurately, and the template is intended for the core information. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 14:34, 29 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> The category thing displays as &lt;nowiki&gt; [[Category:&lt;/nowiki&gt;[[weapon smithing]]&lt;nowiki&gt; items]] &lt;/nowiki&gt; here, I'm not sure how to fix that. Maybe this should be optional btw, things like [[milk]] or the [[yoyo]] would be getting it's own category. [[User:Manny|Manny]] 05:01, 29 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : I fixed the category issue. The lonely items would indeed be getting their own category, but that's a consequence of them being the only items from their skill. There may be more later, and it doesn't cost us anything to categorize them when the template does it automatically. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 14:34, 29 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: Allright. Is the template ready to be used now? {{smiley}} --[[User:Manny|Manny]] 15:45, 31 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: Assuming nobody's burning in with discontent over the parameter names, I'd say we're ready to go. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 17:00, 31 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: I'm all for it. Thanks for putting the really nice finishing touches on this idea, Dashiva. I think this will increase the quality of this wiki tenfold. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:22, 31 August 2007 (CDT)</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Orient_Isle&diff=25239 2007-08-28T03:17:26Z

<p>Hephaestus: typo</p> <hr /> <div>Orient Isle is a landmass (possibly an Island, although that hasn't been conclusively decided yet) that sits well east of Newtown, across the body of water that surrounds Donner's Mountain on the current map, Gold 2 on the Home Server.<br /> <br /> = Purpose =<br /> <br /> Orient Isle has been named simply to give the residents of the area a sense of community so that they may coordinate with each other to make their own individual game lives better as well as the entire state of the Isle.<br /> <br /> Residents of Orient Isle congregate on the heavenly place IRC network in #OrientIsle. Whether a resident of the area or not, any and all are welcome to join the channel to communicate with the residents for purposes of trade, civic organization, or even just personal chatter.<br /> <br /> = People =<br /> <br /> While the social structure of Orient Isle is at present very amorphous, as things grow a loose social hierarchy will emerge. When this happens, you will find a list of people you can contact to become part of the community.<br /> <br /> = Places =<br /> <br /> Currently the Orient Isle region stretches from Steel Bay all the way up to Verdant Isle and encompasses almost every deed in between. This is not static as word of out existence spreads and as our knowledge of geography becomes more complete, thanks largely to [[Kinoss]]'s Map.<br /> <br /> The following settlements are located on the Isle and recognize the region:<br /> <br /> * [[Cheval-blanc]] (HS)</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Settlement_talk:Template_Sandbox&diff=25238 2007-08-27T23:51:05Z

<p>Hephaestus: /* Implementation */</p> <hr /> <div>I was thinking that for pages on just about everything covering any kind of resource or building process (like 80% of this wiki) are sort of ugly and they don't flow well. They are, however, quite consistent which is good. If you browse on over the [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Jeweler%27s_Workshop Dwarf Fortress wiki], you'll see nice template boxes on the right hand side that provide a sort of &quot;just the facts&quot; view of several different categories of things. Now DF and Wurm don't have a lot in common, but there is one thing that binds them: they're both games about stuff. I was thinking that designing templates for many of our &quot;stuff-related&quot; pages would really jazz up this wiki and make it more functional. It would provide easy at a glance info in the box, leaving the rest of the page to discuss quirks, advice, or general discussion on that item/building.<br /> <br /> Anyway, I created this page for tinkering with templates to see if I or any of you can come up with something that looks nice and works.<br /> --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:00, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> Also, if you guys think it's cool, I'll make a trial template page and a fake item entry to tinker around with the templates.<br /> --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:40, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Let's try to keep it to one set of pages. One template (e.g. [[Template:Test]]) and one page to use it one (e.g. this page) is enough, any more extensive testing fits better as a subpage of your user page. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 15:39, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: At current, I have made 3 pages including this one with no plans to make any other. You're right though in that one page, [[TestItem]] can be done away with and I can test the results of the template tinkering on this page. Overall, I'm more interested in what people think of this idea in general. To me, it would make this wiki so much more tidy and easy to read, but I'm not interested in foisting my aesthetic onto others if they don't want it. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:46, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: It feels strange, but then again it usually does when something new comes along, it will probably grow onto people. On the other hand I'm no wiki-admin, so I'm not in charge to do such decisions ^_^ --[[User:Steffel|Steffe]] 21:19, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: Well, if you want to check it out, I plugged the information for a hatchet into [[TestItem]]. I'll probably be making up a test image that should be used as a standard for such a template. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 22:08, 21 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: Hmm, I kinda like the old (current) version better, it feels so empty with the template-version :/ Then again, it's just that, a test so far. --[[User:Steffel|Steffe]] 19:55, 22 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::::: Well, I agree with you. But isn't it funny how condensed the information can be? I guess my point is that most of these wiki articles are too sparse. I've personally come across about 3/4 of the pages that need more information. Just the facts doesn't always do it. I guess the point of the template is to get &quot;just the facts&quot; off to the side and easy to spot so that we can maybe spend more time on more in depth information. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 21:43, 22 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> (Skipping indentation) I think the core issue here is that usually '''there is no in-depth information'''. We have a huge amount of pages whose only unique information can be reduced to about five lines fitting inside a box: The name of the result item, the two items to combine, the items needed to complete it, and the skill used. Everything else is either redundant or fluff.<br /> <br /> I've been thinking about introducing template boxes myself, so I support this measure. I see three main benefits. 1) A consistent view of the core information. 2) Getting rid of redundancy. 3) By cleaning up the pages, it becomes visually obvious that there's room for (and need for) in-depth information.<br /> <br /> I would have adjusted the template some, but I'm still waiting for Egal to add the parserfunctions extension. Also moved the showcase to this page. Makes little sense to use the talk page of a different article from the one we're testing in. :) - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 15:46, 23 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Thanks for the much needed input Dashiva. I agree with you on almost all counts. I do agree that we need to keep things concise, but many pages are more than a few degrees shy of concise. For example, the other day I made my first dirt mound and I realized that the wiki didn't mention that you need a second kindling to start the pile. Also, there was no indication of what affected the output of the pile. There are lots of pages like that. Just because information doesn't fall within the template box doesn't mean it's not crucial. That being said, I think critical mass with the template box would have the outside-of-box text filling up the space to the left of the box and maybe a bit below, but not too much.<br /> <br /> :Template boxes also, as I've said, allow for easier parsing of critical information for quick reference. I also believe that the sparsity of info on the current wiki pages is stylistically negative as very little info tends to get spread over broad expanses of real estate. There are some pages that have no need of much in depth info, so even these pages would benefit from condensing into such a consistent box to make the info more readable. I'm hoping to maybe tweak the template box a little (I'm thinking of merging the image slot and the result slot because they really are redundant) then maybe meshing them into item entries. What do you think? I may also start working on a building template here that serves much the same function, but geared towards information relevant to buildings. Having gone through many of the entries for both items and buildings I find that most entries &lt;i&gt;are not&lt;/i&gt; consistent as I had initially thought. and need to be cleaned up as well. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 14:36, 24 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> === Implementation ===<br /> Since there were no major objections, I went ahead and started putting the template box into various item entries. I assume the work will be long and tedious. Any brave soul out there care to help me?<br /> <br /> In the future I'd also like to consider Bestiary templates, building templates, and some others. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 22:52, 26 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :Some pages such as [[carving knife]] and [[lantern]] have improvement(-tools) sections. Should these be part of the template? [[User:Manny|Manny]] 08:54, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: I was kind of wondering that myself. Since the tools used to imp most things are common to only a few major categories, to include them on every item entry would be redundant. I'm thinking maybe some kind of link to the improvement tool set? Then again, we could edit the various skills entries to include what tools are used when improving in that area. I do think that putting them into the template box is a bit clunky, but maybe there's a graceful way. What do you think? --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 09:40, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: I suppose listing the improvement method on the skill pages should be enough. Any exception to the normal improvement method should be mentioned on the item page itself. [[User:Manny|Manny]] 10:00, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : It's good to see everyone's so eager to get started, but please hold your (so far unimplemented) horses. Egal finally implemented ParserFunctions, so I have in mind to tinker quite a bit with the templates now. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 16:18, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: Well, some of us have already started, but for now we can put the brakes on. What are your plans? I mean can't you tinker with the templates even after we've template-ized the pages or do you have something more drastic in mind? --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:36, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: Check out what I did to [[Template:Test]] (demoed on this page) for a basic idea. We want to remove as much redundancy as possible, especially the &quot;method&quot; explanation apart from the actual items. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 16:46, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: Aesthetically I like what you did very much. However, and speaking of redundancy, doesn't it seem redundant to list a skill twice in a row when talking about improving? Is there a way we can indicate that making an item relies on a skill as well as the tools that belong to that skill set to improve? I do worry that the method section may have been tightened up too much. While it was kind of bloated, there was a use. When confronted with the act of using an iron lump on a large anvil there may be two dozen choices in 4 menus available. For clarity's sake, I think it would be nice to somehow concisely indicate the path down that tree. Again, the old way was a bit bulky and not at all concise. I'm hoping we can come up with something new. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:59, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: That's what discussion is for. I agree that having the skill listed twice seems redundant, I did it that way to allow for exceptions. However, it's also possible to hide that entire section unless there is an exception. Adding the create category is also just a matter of including new parameters. We could do &quot;Select Create / {{{group}}} / {{{name}}}&quot; or &quot;Select Create / {{{create}}}&quot; or some other variation. Which would you prefer? - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 17:14, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> (new indent) I think just Create&gt;Group is good but only for those entries where there are a ton of choice. I think just the way you have it is perfect for most things. Also, I prefer to use &quot;&gt;&quot; simply because that's the symbol the game uses. I don't know if that makes for any html or wiki wonkiness. One thing I was thinking was to change &quot;Additional materials&quot; section back to &quot;Tools required&quot; that way we could always put a link to the set of tools needed to imp a certain thing. This would require the creation of only a few pages and would give us a space to give general advice on how to improve things particular to each set. The link in the table could just say &quot;Tools for Improvement&quot; and link to a list of possible tools needed to imp plus advice on how best to go about it. What do you think? One small thing I'd like to point out is that I think the image should be centered in the space. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 17:48, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Okay, now it adds a third line saying &quot;Select submenu Create &gt; Group-param&quot; if the parameter group is given. The text &quot;select submenu&quot; could be replaced by something different. I also merged skill and improve, so it now has one section &quot;Skill and improvement&quot; which says &quot;Uses skill-param&quot; normally, and &quot;Uses skill-param, but improves as improve-param&quot; if the parameter improve is given. That way we can keep default tools on the skill page (most already have this), and exceptions are free to link anywhere they want. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 18:13, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: I like it quite a bit. Though could you center the image? Otherwise it's nice and tight, which is what we want, I think. Plus, the aesthetic additions you made to it really make it &quot;pop&quot;. I just need to bone up on how to use these parameters then I'd be happy to start editing in this new template. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:18, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: Image should be centered now, but I still think we should wait a day or two for other people to comment (probably just going to be Manny though {{smiley}}). Changing the style and stuff can be done at any time, but if we decide to change the parameter names, we'd have to redo all the existing template use. In the meantime, there's plenty of other stuff to do. The design for the village/homestead/settlement templates is up for grabs. I'm also interested in some discussion on whether we should plan templates for skill pages or not. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 18:34, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: I'd like to try and tackle a bestiary template if that's alright with you. I do think a settlement template would be great as well. After that I'd say all that's needed is a building template. I do think we should be careful and make sure this item template is solid, because in my mind all templates should be stylistically consistent. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:51, 27 August 2007 (CDT)</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Settlement_talk:Template_Sandbox&diff=25233 2007-08-27T23:18:55Z

<p>Hephaestus: /* Implementation */</p> <hr /> <div>I was thinking that for pages on just about everything covering any kind of resource or building process (like 80% of this wiki) are sort of ugly and they don't flow well. They are, however, quite consistent which is good. If you browse on over the [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Jeweler%27s_Workshop Dwarf Fortress wiki], you'll see nice template boxes on the right hand side that provide a sort of &quot;just the facts&quot; view of several different categories of things. Now DF and Wurm don't have a lot in common, but there is one thing that binds them: they're both games about stuff. I was thinking that designing templates for many of our &quot;stuff-related&quot; pages would really jazz up this wiki and make it more functional. It would provide easy at a glance info in the box, leaving the rest of the page to discuss quirks, advice, or general discussion on that item/building.<br /> <br /> Anyway, I created this page for tinkering with templates to see if I or any of you can come up with something that looks nice and works.<br /> --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:00, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> Also, if you guys think it's cool, I'll make a trial template page and a fake item entry to tinker around with the templates.<br /> --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:40, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Let's try to keep it to one set of pages. One template (e.g. [[Template:Test]]) and one page to use it one (e.g. this page) is enough, any more extensive testing fits better as a subpage of your user page. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 15:39, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: At current, I have made 3 pages including this one with no plans to make any other. You're right though in that one page, [[TestItem]] can be done away with and I can test the results of the template tinkering on this page. Overall, I'm more interested in what people think of this idea in general. To me, it would make this wiki so much more tidy and easy to read, but I'm not interested in foisting my aesthetic onto others if they don't want it. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:46, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: It feels strange, but then again it usually does when something new comes along, it will probably grow onto people. On the other hand I'm no wiki-admin, so I'm not in charge to do such decisions ^_^ --[[User:Steffel|Steffe]] 21:19, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: Well, if you want to check it out, I plugged the information for a hatchet into [[TestItem]]. I'll probably be making up a test image that should be used as a standard for such a template. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 22:08, 21 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: Hmm, I kinda like the old (current) version better, it feels so empty with the template-version :/ Then again, it's just that, a test so far. --[[User:Steffel|Steffe]] 19:55, 22 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::::: Well, I agree with you. But isn't it funny how condensed the information can be? I guess my point is that most of these wiki articles are too sparse. I've personally come across about 3/4 of the pages that need more information. Just the facts doesn't always do it. I guess the point of the template is to get &quot;just the facts&quot; off to the side and easy to spot so that we can maybe spend more time on more in depth information. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 21:43, 22 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> (Skipping indentation) I think the core issue here is that usually '''there is no in-depth information'''. We have a huge amount of pages whose only unique information can be reduced to about five lines fitting inside a box: The name of the result item, the two items to combine, the items needed to complete it, and the skill used. Everything else is either redundant or fluff.<br /> <br /> I've been thinking about introducing template boxes myself, so I support this measure. I see three main benefits. 1) A consistent view of the core information. 2) Getting rid of redundancy. 3) By cleaning up the pages, it becomes visually obvious that there's room for (and need for) in-depth information.<br /> <br /> I would have adjusted the template some, but I'm still waiting for Egal to add the parserfunctions extension. Also moved the showcase to this page. Makes little sense to use the talk page of a different article from the one we're testing in. :) - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 15:46, 23 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Thanks for the much needed input Dashiva. I agree with you on almost all counts. I do agree that we need to keep things concise, but many pages are more than a few degrees shy of concise. For example, the other day I made my first dirt mound and I realized that the wiki didn't mention that you need a second kindling to start the pile. Also, there was no indication of what affected the output of the pile. There are lots of pages like that. Just because information doesn't fall within the template box doesn't mean it's not crucial. That being said, I think critical mass with the template box would have the outside-of-box text filling up the space to the left of the box and maybe a bit below, but not too much.<br /> <br /> :Template boxes also, as I've said, allow for easier parsing of critical information for quick reference. I also believe that the sparsity of info on the current wiki pages is stylistically negative as very little info tends to get spread over broad expanses of real estate. There are some pages that have no need of much in depth info, so even these pages would benefit from condensing into such a consistent box to make the info more readable. I'm hoping to maybe tweak the template box a little (I'm thinking of merging the image slot and the result slot because they really are redundant) then maybe meshing them into item entries. What do you think? I may also start working on a building template here that serves much the same function, but geared towards information relevant to buildings. Having gone through many of the entries for both items and buildings I find that most entries &lt;i&gt;are not&lt;/i&gt; consistent as I had initially thought. and need to be cleaned up as well. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 14:36, 24 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> === Implementation ===<br /> Since there were no major objections, I went ahead and started putting the template box into various item entries. I assume the work will be long and tedious. Any brave soul out there care to help me?<br /> <br /> In the future I'd also like to consider Bestiary templates, building templates, and some others. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 22:52, 26 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :Some pages such as [[carving knife]] and [[lantern]] have improvement(-tools) sections. Should these be part of the template? [[User:Manny|Manny]] 08:54, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: I was kind of wondering that myself. Since the tools used to imp most things are common to only a few major categories, to include them on every item entry would be redundant. I'm thinking maybe some kind of link to the improvement tool set? Then again, we could edit the various skills entries to include what tools are used when improving in that area. I do think that putting them into the template box is a bit clunky, but maybe there's a graceful way. What do you think? --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 09:40, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: I suppose listing the improvement method on the skill pages should be enough. Any exception to the normal improvement method should be mentioned on the item page itself. [[User:Manny|Manny]] 10:00, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : It's good to see everyone's so eager to get started, but please hold your (so far unimplemented) horses. Egal finally implemented ParserFunctions, so I have in mind to tinker quite a bit with the templates now. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 16:18, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: Well, some of us have already started, but for now we can put the brakes on. What are your plans? I mean can't you tinker with the templates even after we've template-ized the pages or do you have something more drastic in mind? --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:36, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: Check out what I did to [[Template:Test]] (demoed on this page) for a basic idea. We want to remove as much redundancy as possible, especially the &quot;method&quot; explanation apart from the actual items. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 16:46, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: Aesthetically I like what you did very much. However, and speaking of redundancy, doesn't it seem redundant to list a skill twice in a row when talking about improving? Is there a way we can indicate that making an item relies on a skill as well as the tools that belong to that skill set to improve? I do worry that the method section may have been tightened up too much. While it was kind of bloated, there was a use. When confronted with the act of using an iron lump on a large anvil there may be two dozen choices in 4 menus available. For clarity's sake, I think it would be nice to somehow concisely indicate the path down that tree. Again, the old way was a bit bulky and not at all concise. I'm hoping we can come up with something new. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:59, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: That's what discussion is for. I agree that having the skill listed twice seems redundant, I did it that way to allow for exceptions. However, it's also possible to hide that entire section unless there is an exception. Adding the create category is also just a matter of including new parameters. We could do &quot;Select Create / {{{group}}} / {{{name}}}&quot; or &quot;Select Create / {{{create}}}&quot; or some other variation. Which would you prefer? - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 17:14, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> (new indent) I think just Create&gt;Group is good but only for those entries where there are a ton of choice. I think just the way you have it is perfect for most things. Also, I prefer to use &quot;&gt;&quot; simply because that's the symbol the game uses. I don't know if that makes for any html or wiki wonkiness. One thing I was thinking was to change &quot;Additional materials&quot; section back to &quot;Tools required&quot; that way we could always put a link to the set of tools needed to imp a certain thing. This would require the creation of only a few pages and would give us a space to give general advice on how to improve things particular to each set. The link in the table could just say &quot;Tools for Improvement&quot; and link to a list of possible tools needed to imp plus advice on how best to go about it. What do you think? One small thing I'd like to point out is that I think the image should be centered in the space. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 17:48, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Okay, now it adds a third line saying &quot;Select submenu Create &gt; Group-param&quot; if the parameter group is given. The text &quot;select submenu&quot; could be replaced by something different. I also merged skill and improve, so it now has one section &quot;Skill and improvement&quot; which says &quot;Uses skill-param&quot; normally, and &quot;Uses skill-param, but improves as improve-param&quot; if the parameter improve is given. That way we can keep default tools on the skill page (most already have this), and exceptions are free to link anywhere they want. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 18:13, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: I like it quite a bit. Though could you center the image? Otherwise it's nice and tight, which is what we want, I think. Plus, the aesthetic additions you made to it really make it &quot;pop&quot;. I just need to bone up on how to use these parameters then I'd be happy to start editing in this new template. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:18, 27 August 2007 (CDT)</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Orient_Isle&diff=25232 2007-08-27T23:15:34Z

<p>Hephaestus: </p> <hr /> <div>Orient Isle is a landmass (possibly and Island, although that hasn't been conclusively decided yet) that sits well east of Newtown, across the body of water that surrounds Donner's Mountain on the current map, Gold 2 on the Home Server.<br /> <br /> = Purpose =<br /> <br /> Orient Isle has been named simply to give the residents of the area a sense of community so that they may coordinate with each other to make their own individual game lives better as well as the entire state of the Isle.<br /> <br /> Residents of Orient Isle congregate on the heavenly place IRC network in #OrientIsle. Whether a resident of the area or not, any and all are welcome to join the channel to communicate with the residents for purposes of trade, civic organization, or even just personal chatter.<br /> <br /> = People =<br /> <br /> While the social structure of Orient Isle is at present very amorphous, as things grow a loose social hierarchy will emerge. When this happens, you will find a list of people you can contact to become part of the community.<br /> <br /> = Places =<br /> <br /> Currently the Orient Isle region stretches from Steel Bay all the way up to Verdant Isle and encompasses almost every deed in between. This is not static as word of out existence spreads and as our knowledge of geography becomes more complete, thanks largely to [[Kinoss]]'s Map.<br /> <br /> The following settlements are located on the Isle and recognize the region:<br /> <br /> * [[Cheval-blanc]] (HS)</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Orient_Isle&diff=25231 2007-08-27T23:13:59Z

<p>Hephaestus: New page: Orient Isle is a landmass (possibly and Island, although that hasn't been conclusively decided yet) that sits well east of Newtown, across the body of water that surrounds Donner's Mountai...</p> <hr /> <div>Orient Isle is a landmass (possibly and Island, although that hasn't been conclusively decided yet) that sits well east of Newtown, across the body of water that surrounds Donner's Mountain on the current map, Gold 2.<br /> <br /> = Purpose =<br /> <br /> Orient Isle has been named simply to give the residents of the area a sense of community so that they may coordinate with each other to make their own individual game lives better as well as the entire state of the Isle.<br /> <br /> Residents of Orient Isle congregate on the heavenly place IRC network in #OrientIsle. Whether a resident of the area or not, any and all are welcome to join the channel to communicate with the residents for purposes of trade, civic organization, or even just personal chatter.<br /> <br /> = People =<br /> <br /> While the social structure of Orient Isle is at present very amorphous, as things grow a loose social hierarchy will emerge. When this happens, you will find a list of people you can contact to become part of the community.<br /> <br /> = Places =<br /> <br /> Currently the Orient Isle region stretches from Steel Bay all the way up to Verdant Isle and encompasses almost every deed in between. This is not static as word of out existence spreads and as our knowledge of geography becomes more complete, thanks largely to [[Kinoss]]'s Map.<br /> <br /> The following settlements are located on the Isle and recognize the region:<br /> <br /> * [[Cheval-blanc]] (HS)</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Settlement_talk:Template_Sandbox&diff=25226 2007-08-27T22:50:11Z

<p>Hephaestus: </p> <hr /> <div>I was thinking that for pages on just about everything covering any kind of resource or building process (like 80% of this wiki) are sort of ugly and they don't flow well. They are, however, quite consistent which is good. If you browse on over the [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Jeweler%27s_Workshop Dwarf Fortress wiki], you'll see nice template boxes on the right hand side that provide a sort of &quot;just the facts&quot; view of several different categories of things. Now DF and Wurm don't have a lot in common, but there is one thing that binds them: they're both games about stuff. I was thinking that designing templates for many of our &quot;stuff-related&quot; pages would really jazz up this wiki and make it more functional. It would provide easy at a glance info in the box, leaving the rest of the page to discuss quirks, advice, or general discussion on that item/building.<br /> <br /> Anyway, I created this page for tinkering with templates to see if I or any of you can come up with something that looks nice and works.<br /> --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:00, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> Also, if you guys think it's cool, I'll make a trial template page and a fake item entry to tinker around with the templates.<br /> --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:40, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Let's try to keep it to one set of pages. One template (e.g. [[Template:Test]]) and one page to use it one (e.g. this page) is enough, any more extensive testing fits better as a subpage of your user page. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 15:39, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: At current, I have made 3 pages including this one with no plans to make any other. You're right though in that one page, [[TestItem]] can be done away with and I can test the results of the template tinkering on this page. Overall, I'm more interested in what people think of this idea in general. To me, it would make this wiki so much more tidy and easy to read, but I'm not interested in foisting my aesthetic onto others if they don't want it. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:46, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: It feels strange, but then again it usually does when something new comes along, it will probably grow onto people. On the other hand I'm no wiki-admin, so I'm not in charge to do such decisions ^_^ --[[User:Steffel|Steffe]] 21:19, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: Well, if you want to check it out, I plugged the information for a hatchet into [[TestItem]]. I'll probably be making up a test image that should be used as a standard for such a template. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 22:08, 21 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: Hmm, I kinda like the old (current) version better, it feels so empty with the template-version :/ Then again, it's just that, a test so far. --[[User:Steffel|Steffe]] 19:55, 22 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::::: Well, I agree with you. But isn't it funny how condensed the information can be? I guess my point is that most of these wiki articles are too sparse. I've personally come across about 3/4 of the pages that need more information. Just the facts doesn't always do it. I guess the point of the template is to get &quot;just the facts&quot; off to the side and easy to spot so that we can maybe spend more time on more in depth information. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 21:43, 22 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> (Skipping indentation) I think the core issue here is that usually '''there is no in-depth information'''. We have a huge amount of pages whose only unique information can be reduced to about five lines fitting inside a box: The name of the result item, the two items to combine, the items needed to complete it, and the skill used. Everything else is either redundant or fluff.<br /> <br /> I've been thinking about introducing template boxes myself, so I support this measure. I see three main benefits. 1) A consistent view of the core information. 2) Getting rid of redundancy. 3) By cleaning up the pages, it becomes visually obvious that there's room for (and need for) in-depth information.<br /> <br /> I would have adjusted the template some, but I'm still waiting for Egal to add the parserfunctions extension. Also moved the showcase to this page. Makes little sense to use the talk page of a different article from the one we're testing in. :) - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 15:46, 23 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Thanks for the much needed input Dashiva. I agree with you on almost all counts. I do agree that we need to keep things concise, but many pages are more than a few degrees shy of concise. For example, the other day I made my first dirt mound and I realized that the wiki didn't mention that you need a second kindling to start the pile. Also, there was no indication of what affected the output of the pile. There are lots of pages like that. Just because information doesn't fall within the template box doesn't mean it's not crucial. That being said, I think critical mass with the template box would have the outside-of-box text filling up the space to the left of the box and maybe a bit below, but not too much.<br /> <br /> :Template boxes also, as I've said, allow for easier parsing of critical information for quick reference. I also believe that the sparsity of info on the current wiki pages is stylistically negative as very little info tends to get spread over broad expanses of real estate. There are some pages that have no need of much in depth info, so even these pages would benefit from condensing into such a consistent box to make the info more readable. I'm hoping to maybe tweak the template box a little (I'm thinking of merging the image slot and the result slot because they really are redundant) then maybe meshing them into item entries. What do you think? I may also start working on a building template here that serves much the same function, but geared towards information relevant to buildings. Having gone through many of the entries for both items and buildings I find that most entries &lt;i&gt;are not&lt;/i&gt; consistent as I had initially thought. and need to be cleaned up as well. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 14:36, 24 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> === Implementation ===<br /> Since there were no major objections, I went ahead and started putting the template box into various item entries. I assume the work will be long and tedious. Any brave soul out there care to help me?<br /> <br /> In the future I'd also like to consider Bestiary templates, building templates, and some others. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 22:52, 26 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :Some pages such as [[carving knife]] and [[lantern]] have improvement(-tools) sections. Should these be part of the template? [[User:Manny|Manny]] 08:54, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: I was kind of wondering that myself. Since the tools used to imp most things are common to only a few major categories, to include them on every item entry would be redundant. I'm thinking maybe some kind of link to the improvement tool set? Then again, we could edit the various skills entries to include what tools are used when improving in that area. I do think that putting them into the template box is a bit clunky, but maybe there's a graceful way. What do you think? --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 09:40, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: I suppose listing the improvement method on the skill pages should be enough. Any exception to the normal improvement method should be mentioned on the item page itself. [[User:Manny|Manny]] 10:00, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : It's good to see everyone's so eager to get started, but please hold your (so far unimplemented) horses. Egal finally implemented ParserFunctions, so I have in mind to tinker quite a bit with the templates now. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 16:18, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: Well, some of us have already started, but for now we can put the brakes on. What are your plans? I mean can't you tinker with the templates even after we've template-ized the pages or do you have something more drastic in mind? --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:36, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: Check out what I did to [[Template:Test]] (demoed on this page) for a basic idea. We want to remove as much redundancy as possible, especially the &quot;method&quot; explanation apart from the actual items. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 16:46, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: Aesthetically I like what you did very much. However, and speaking of redundancy, doesn't it seem redundant to list a skill twice in a row when talking about improving? Is there a way we can indicate that making an item relies on a skill as well as the tools that belong to that skill set to improve? I do worry that the method section may have been tightened up too much. While it was kind of bloated, there was a use. When confronted with the act of using an iron lump on a large anvil there may be two dozen choices in 4 menus available. For clarity's sake, I think it would be nice to somehow concisely indicate the path down that tree. Again, the old way was a bit bulky and not at all concise. I'm hoping we can come up with something new. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:59, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: That's what discussion is for. I agree that having the skill listed twice seems redundant, I did it that way to allow for exceptions. However, it's also possible to hide that entire section unless there is an exception. Adding the create category is also just a matter of including new parameters. We could do &quot;Select Create / {{{group}}} / {{{name}}}&quot; or &quot;Select Create / {{{create}}}&quot; or some other variation. Which would you prefer? - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 17:14, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> (new indent) I think just Create&gt;Group is good but only for those entries where there are a ton of choice. I think just the way you have it is perfect for most things. Also, I prefer to use &quot;&gt;&quot; simply because that's the symbol the game uses. I don't know if that makes for any html or wiki wonkiness. One thing I was thinking was to change &quot;Additional materials&quot; section back to &quot;Tools required&quot; that way we could always put a link to the set of tools needed to imp a certain thing. This would require the creation of only a few pages and would give us a space to give general advice on how to improve things particular to each set. The link in the table could just say &quot;Tools for Improvement&quot; and link to a list of possible tools needed to imp plus advice on how best to go about it. What do you think? One small thing I'd like to point out is that I think the image should be centered in the space. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 17:48, 27 August 2007 (CDT)</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Settlement_talk:Template_Sandbox&diff=25225 2007-08-27T22:48:51Z

<p>Hephaestus: /* Implementation */</p> <hr /> <div>I was thinking that for pages on just about everything covering any kind of resource or building process (like 80% of this wiki) are sort of ugly and they don't flow well. They are, however, quite consistent which is good. If you browse on over the [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Jeweler%27s_Workshop Dwarf Fortress wiki], you'll see nice template boxes on the right hand side that provide a sort of &quot;just the facts&quot; view of several different categories of things. Now DF and Wurm don't have a lot in common, but there is one thing that binds them: they're both games about stuff. I was thinking that designing templates for many of our &quot;stuff-related&quot; pages would really jazz up this wiki and make it more functional. It would provide easy at a glance info in the box, leaving the rest of the page to discuss quirks, advice, or general discussion on that item/building.<br /> <br /> Anyway, I created this page for tinkering with templates to see if I or any of you can come up with something that looks nice and works.<br /> --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:00, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> Also, if you guys think it's cool, I'll make a trial template page and a fake item entry to tinker around with the templates.<br /> --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:40, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Let's try to keep it to one set of pages. One template (e.g. [[Template:Test]]) and one page to use it one (e.g. this page) is enough, any more extensive testing fits better as a subpage of your user page. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 15:39, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: At current, I have made 3 pages including this one with no plans to make any other. You're right though in that one page, [[TestItem]] can be done away with and I can test the results of the template tinkering on this page. Overall, I'm more interested in what people think of this idea in general. To me, it would make this wiki so much more tidy and easy to read, but I'm not interested in foisting my aesthetic onto others if they don't want it. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:46, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: It feels strange, but then again it usually does when something new comes along, it will probably grow onto people. On the other hand I'm no wiki-admin, so I'm not in charge to do such decisions ^_^ --[[User:Steffel|Steffe]] 21:19, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: Well, if you want to check it out, I plugged the information for a hatchet into [[TestItem]]. I'll probably be making up a test image that should be used as a standard for such a template. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 22:08, 21 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: Hmm, I kinda like the old (current) version better, it feels so empty with the template-version :/ Then again, it's just that, a test so far. --[[User:Steffel|Steffe]] 19:55, 22 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::::: Well, I agree with you. But isn't it funny how condensed the information can be? I guess my point is that most of these wiki articles are too sparse. I've personally come across about 3/4 of the pages that need more information. Just the facts doesn't always do it. I guess the point of the template is to get &quot;just the facts&quot; off to the side and easy to spot so that we can maybe spend more time on more in depth information. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 21:43, 22 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> (Skipping indentation) I think the core issue here is that usually '''there is no in-depth information'''. We have a huge amount of pages whose only unique information can be reduced to about five lines fitting inside a box: The name of the result item, the two items to combine, the items needed to complete it, and the skill used. Everything else is either redundant or fluff.<br /> <br /> I've been thinking about introducing template boxes myself, so I support this measure. I see three main benefits. 1) A consistent view of the core information. 2) Getting rid of redundancy. 3) By cleaning up the pages, it becomes visually obvious that there's room for (and need for) in-depth information.<br /> <br /> I would have adjusted the template some, but I'm still waiting for Egal to add the parserfunctions extension. Also moved the showcase to this page. Makes little sense to use the talk page of a different article from the one we're testing in. :) - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 15:46, 23 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Thanks for the much needed input Dashiva. I agree with you on almost all counts. I do agree that we need to keep things concise, but many pages are more than a few degrees shy of concise. For example, the other day I made my first dirt mound and I realized that the wiki didn't mention that you need a second kindling to start the pile. Also, there was no indication of what affected the output of the pile. There are lots of pages like that. Just because information doesn't fall within the template box doesn't mean it's not crucial. That being said, I think critical mass with the template box would have the outside-of-box text filling up the space to the left of the box and maybe a bit below, but not too much.<br /> <br /> :Template boxes also, as I've said, allow for easier parsing of critical information for quick reference. I also believe that the sparsity of info on the current wiki pages is stylistically negative as very little info tends to get spread over broad expanses of real estate. There are some pages that have no need of much in depth info, so even these pages would benefit from condensing into such a consistent box to make the info more readable. I'm hoping to maybe tweak the template box a little (I'm thinking of merging the image slot and the result slot because they really are redundant) then maybe meshing them into item entries. What do you think? I may also start working on a building template here that serves much the same function, but geared towards information relevant to buildings. Having gone through many of the entries for both items and buildings I find that most entries &lt;i&gt;are not&lt;/i&gt; consistent as I had initially thought. and need to be cleaned up as well. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 14:36, 24 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> === Implementation ===<br /> Since there were no major objections, I went ahead and started putting the template box into various item entries. I assume the work will be long and tedious. Any brave soul out there care to help me?<br /> <br /> In the future I'd also like to consider Bestiary templates, building templates, and some others. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 22:52, 26 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :Some pages such as [[carving knife]] and [[lantern]] have improvement(-tools) sections. Should these be part of the template? [[User:Manny|Manny]] 08:54, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: I was kind of wondering that myself. Since the tools used to imp most things are common to only a few major categories, to include them on every item entry would be redundant. I'm thinking maybe some kind of link to the improvement tool set? Then again, we could edit the various skills entries to include what tools are used when improving in that area. I do think that putting them into the template box is a bit clunky, but maybe there's a graceful way. What do you think? --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 09:40, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: I suppose listing the improvement method on the skill pages should be enough. Any exception to the normal improvement method should be mentioned on the item page itself. [[User:Manny|Manny]] 10:00, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : It's good to see everyone's so eager to get started, but please hold your (so far unimplemented) horses. Egal finally implemented ParserFunctions, so I have in mind to tinker quite a bit with the templates now. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 16:18, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: Well, some of us have already started, but for now we can put the brakes on. What are your plans? I mean can't you tinker with the templates even after we've template-ized the pages or do you have something more drastic in mind? --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:36, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: Check out what I did to [[Template:Test]] (demoed on this page) for a basic idea. We want to remove as much redundancy as possible, especially the &quot;method&quot; explanation apart from the actual items. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 16:46, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: Aesthetically I like what you did very much. However, and speaking of redundancy, doesn't it seem redundant to list a skill twice in a row when talking about improving? Is there a way we can indicate that making an item relies on a skill as well as the tools that belong to that skill set to improve? I do worry that the method section may have been tightened up too much. While it was kind of bloated, there was a use. When confronted with the act of using an iron lump on a large anvil there may be two dozen choices in 4 menus available. For clarity's sake, I think it would be nice to somehow concisely indicate the path down that tree. Again, the old way was a bit bulky and not at all concise. I'm hoping we can come up with something new. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:59, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: That's what discussion is for. I agree that having the skill listed twice seems redundant, I did it that way to allow for exceptions. However, it's also possible to hide that entire section unless there is an exception. Adding the create category is also just a matter of including new parameters. We could do &quot;Select Create / {{{group}}} / {{{name}}}&quot; or &quot;Select Create / {{{create}}}&quot; or some other variation. Which would you prefer? - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 17:14, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> (new indent) I think just Create&gt;Group is good but only for those entries where there are a ton of choice. I think just the way you have it is perfect for most things. Also, I prefer to use &quot;&gt;&quot; simply because that's the symbol the game uses. I don't know if that makes for any html or wiki wonkiness. One thing I was thinking was to change &quot;Additional materials&quot; section back to &quot;Tools required&quot; that way we could always put a link to the set of tools needed to imp a certain thing. This would require the creation of only a few pages and would give us a space to give general advice on how to improve things particular to each set. The link in the table could just say &quot;Tools for Improvement&quot; and link to a list of possible tools needed to imp plus advice on how best to go about it. What do you think? --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 17:48, 27 August 2007 (CDT)</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Settlement_talk:Template_Sandbox&diff=25223 2007-08-27T21:59:43Z

<p>Hephaestus: /* Implementation */</p> <hr /> <div>I was thinking that for pages on just about everything covering any kind of resource or building process (like 80% of this wiki) are sort of ugly and they don't flow well. They are, however, quite consistent which is good. If you browse on over the [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Jeweler%27s_Workshop Dwarf Fortress wiki], you'll see nice template boxes on the right hand side that provide a sort of &quot;just the facts&quot; view of several different categories of things. Now DF and Wurm don't have a lot in common, but there is one thing that binds them: they're both games about stuff. I was thinking that designing templates for many of our &quot;stuff-related&quot; pages would really jazz up this wiki and make it more functional. It would provide easy at a glance info in the box, leaving the rest of the page to discuss quirks, advice, or general discussion on that item/building.<br /> <br /> Anyway, I created this page for tinkering with templates to see if I or any of you can come up with something that looks nice and works.<br /> --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:00, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> Also, if you guys think it's cool, I'll make a trial template page and a fake item entry to tinker around with the templates.<br /> --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:40, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Let's try to keep it to one set of pages. One template (e.g. [[Template:Test]]) and one page to use it one (e.g. this page) is enough, any more extensive testing fits better as a subpage of your user page. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 15:39, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: At current, I have made 3 pages including this one with no plans to make any other. You're right though in that one page, [[TestItem]] can be done away with and I can test the results of the template tinkering on this page. Overall, I'm more interested in what people think of this idea in general. To me, it would make this wiki so much more tidy and easy to read, but I'm not interested in foisting my aesthetic onto others if they don't want it. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:46, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: It feels strange, but then again it usually does when something new comes along, it will probably grow onto people. On the other hand I'm no wiki-admin, so I'm not in charge to do such decisions ^_^ --[[User:Steffel|Steffe]] 21:19, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: Well, if you want to check it out, I plugged the information for a hatchet into [[TestItem]]. I'll probably be making up a test image that should be used as a standard for such a template. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 22:08, 21 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: Hmm, I kinda like the old (current) version better, it feels so empty with the template-version :/ Then again, it's just that, a test so far. --[[User:Steffel|Steffe]] 19:55, 22 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::::: Well, I agree with you. But isn't it funny how condensed the information can be? I guess my point is that most of these wiki articles are too sparse. I've personally come across about 3/4 of the pages that need more information. Just the facts doesn't always do it. I guess the point of the template is to get &quot;just the facts&quot; off to the side and easy to spot so that we can maybe spend more time on more in depth information. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 21:43, 22 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> (Skipping indentation) I think the core issue here is that usually '''there is no in-depth information'''. We have a huge amount of pages whose only unique information can be reduced to about five lines fitting inside a box: The name of the result item, the two items to combine, the items needed to complete it, and the skill used. Everything else is either redundant or fluff.<br /> <br /> I've been thinking about introducing template boxes myself, so I support this measure. I see three main benefits. 1) A consistent view of the core information. 2) Getting rid of redundancy. 3) By cleaning up the pages, it becomes visually obvious that there's room for (and need for) in-depth information.<br /> <br /> I would have adjusted the template some, but I'm still waiting for Egal to add the parserfunctions extension. Also moved the showcase to this page. Makes little sense to use the talk page of a different article from the one we're testing in. :) - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 15:46, 23 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Thanks for the much needed input Dashiva. I agree with you on almost all counts. I do agree that we need to keep things concise, but many pages are more than a few degrees shy of concise. For example, the other day I made my first dirt mound and I realized that the wiki didn't mention that you need a second kindling to start the pile. Also, there was no indication of what affected the output of the pile. There are lots of pages like that. Just because information doesn't fall within the template box doesn't mean it's not crucial. That being said, I think critical mass with the template box would have the outside-of-box text filling up the space to the left of the box and maybe a bit below, but not too much.<br /> <br /> :Template boxes also, as I've said, allow for easier parsing of critical information for quick reference. I also believe that the sparsity of info on the current wiki pages is stylistically negative as very little info tends to get spread over broad expanses of real estate. There are some pages that have no need of much in depth info, so even these pages would benefit from condensing into such a consistent box to make the info more readable. I'm hoping to maybe tweak the template box a little (I'm thinking of merging the image slot and the result slot because they really are redundant) then maybe meshing them into item entries. What do you think? I may also start working on a building template here that serves much the same function, but geared towards information relevant to buildings. Having gone through many of the entries for both items and buildings I find that most entries &lt;i&gt;are not&lt;/i&gt; consistent as I had initially thought. and need to be cleaned up as well. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 14:36, 24 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> === Implementation ===<br /> Since there were no major objections, I went ahead and started putting the template box into various item entries. I assume the work will be long and tedious. Any brave soul out there care to help me?<br /> <br /> In the future I'd also like to consider Bestiary templates, building templates, and some others. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 22:52, 26 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :Some pages such as [[carving knife]] and [[lantern]] have improvement(-tools) sections. Should these be part of the template? [[User:Manny|Manny]] 08:54, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: I was kind of wondering that myself. Since the tools used to imp most things are common to only a few major categories, to include them on every item entry would be redundant. I'm thinking maybe some kind of link to the improvement tool set? Then again, we could edit the various skills entries to include what tools are used when improving in that area. I do think that putting them into the template box is a bit clunky, but maybe there's a graceful way. What do you think? --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 09:40, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: I suppose listing the improvement method on the skill pages should be enough. Any exception to the normal improvement method should be mentioned on the item page itself. [[User:Manny|Manny]] 10:00, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : It's good to see everyone's so eager to get started, but please hold your (so far unimplemented) horses. Egal finally implemented ParserFunctions, so I have in mind to tinker quite a bit with the templates now. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 16:18, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: Well, some of us have already started, but for now we can put the brakes on. What are your plans? I mean can't you tinker with the templates even after we've template-ized the pages or do you have something more drastic in mind? --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:36, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: Check out what I did to [[Template:Test]] (demoed on this page) for a basic idea. We want to remove as much redundancy as possible, especially the &quot;method&quot; explanation apart from the actual items. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 16:46, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: Aesthetically I like what you did very much. However, and speaking of redundancy, doesn't it seem redundant to list a skill twice in a row when talking about improving? Is there a way we can indicate that making an item relies on a skill as well as the tools that belong to that skill set to improve? I do worry that the method section may have been tightened up too much. While it was kind of bloated, there was a use. When confronted with the act of using an iron lump on a large anvil there may be two dozen choices in 4 menus available. For clarity's sake, I think it would be nice to somehow concisely indicate the path down that tree. Again, the old way was a bit bulky and not at all concise. I'm hoping we can come up with something new. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:59, 27 August 2007 (CDT)</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Settlement_talk:Template_Sandbox&diff=25216 2007-08-27T21:36:47Z

<p>Hephaestus: /* Implementation */</p> <hr /> <div>I was thinking that for pages on just about everything covering any kind of resource or building process (like 80% of this wiki) are sort of ugly and they don't flow well. They are, however, quite consistent which is good. If you browse on over the [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Jeweler%27s_Workshop Dwarf Fortress wiki], you'll see nice template boxes on the right hand side that provide a sort of &quot;just the facts&quot; view of several different categories of things. Now DF and Wurm don't have a lot in common, but there is one thing that binds them: they're both games about stuff. I was thinking that designing templates for many of our &quot;stuff-related&quot; pages would really jazz up this wiki and make it more functional. It would provide easy at a glance info in the box, leaving the rest of the page to discuss quirks, advice, or general discussion on that item/building.<br /> <br /> Anyway, I created this page for tinkering with templates to see if I or any of you can come up with something that looks nice and works.<br /> --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:00, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> Also, if you guys think it's cool, I'll make a trial template page and a fake item entry to tinker around with the templates.<br /> --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:40, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Let's try to keep it to one set of pages. One template (e.g. [[Template:Test]]) and one page to use it one (e.g. this page) is enough, any more extensive testing fits better as a subpage of your user page. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 15:39, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: At current, I have made 3 pages including this one with no plans to make any other. You're right though in that one page, [[TestItem]] can be done away with and I can test the results of the template tinkering on this page. Overall, I'm more interested in what people think of this idea in general. To me, it would make this wiki so much more tidy and easy to read, but I'm not interested in foisting my aesthetic onto others if they don't want it. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:46, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: It feels strange, but then again it usually does when something new comes along, it will probably grow onto people. On the other hand I'm no wiki-admin, so I'm not in charge to do such decisions ^_^ --[[User:Steffel|Steffe]] 21:19, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: Well, if you want to check it out, I plugged the information for a hatchet into [[TestItem]]. I'll probably be making up a test image that should be used as a standard for such a template. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 22:08, 21 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: Hmm, I kinda like the old (current) version better, it feels so empty with the template-version :/ Then again, it's just that, a test so far. --[[User:Steffel|Steffe]] 19:55, 22 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::::: Well, I agree with you. But isn't it funny how condensed the information can be? I guess my point is that most of these wiki articles are too sparse. I've personally come across about 3/4 of the pages that need more information. Just the facts doesn't always do it. I guess the point of the template is to get &quot;just the facts&quot; off to the side and easy to spot so that we can maybe spend more time on more in depth information. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 21:43, 22 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> (Skipping indentation) I think the core issue here is that usually '''there is no in-depth information'''. We have a huge amount of pages whose only unique information can be reduced to about five lines fitting inside a box: The name of the result item, the two items to combine, the items needed to complete it, and the skill used. Everything else is either redundant or fluff.<br /> <br /> I've been thinking about introducing template boxes myself, so I support this measure. I see three main benefits. 1) A consistent view of the core information. 2) Getting rid of redundancy. 3) By cleaning up the pages, it becomes visually obvious that there's room for (and need for) in-depth information.<br /> <br /> I would have adjusted the template some, but I'm still waiting for Egal to add the parserfunctions extension. Also moved the showcase to this page. Makes little sense to use the talk page of a different article from the one we're testing in. :) - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 15:46, 23 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Thanks for the much needed input Dashiva. I agree with you on almost all counts. I do agree that we need to keep things concise, but many pages are more than a few degrees shy of concise. For example, the other day I made my first dirt mound and I realized that the wiki didn't mention that you need a second kindling to start the pile. Also, there was no indication of what affected the output of the pile. There are lots of pages like that. Just because information doesn't fall within the template box doesn't mean it's not crucial. That being said, I think critical mass with the template box would have the outside-of-box text filling up the space to the left of the box and maybe a bit below, but not too much.<br /> <br /> :Template boxes also, as I've said, allow for easier parsing of critical information for quick reference. I also believe that the sparsity of info on the current wiki pages is stylistically negative as very little info tends to get spread over broad expanses of real estate. There are some pages that have no need of much in depth info, so even these pages would benefit from condensing into such a consistent box to make the info more readable. I'm hoping to maybe tweak the template box a little (I'm thinking of merging the image slot and the result slot because they really are redundant) then maybe meshing them into item entries. What do you think? I may also start working on a building template here that serves much the same function, but geared towards information relevant to buildings. Having gone through many of the entries for both items and buildings I find that most entries &lt;i&gt;are not&lt;/i&gt; consistent as I had initially thought. and need to be cleaned up as well. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 14:36, 24 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> === Implementation ===<br /> Since there were no major objections, I went ahead and started putting the template box into various item entries. I assume the work will be long and tedious. Any brave soul out there care to help me?<br /> <br /> In the future I'd also like to consider Bestiary templates, building templates, and some others. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 22:52, 26 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :Some pages such as [[carving knife]] and [[lantern]] have improvement(-tools) sections. Should these be part of the template? [[User:Manny|Manny]] 08:54, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: I was kind of wondering that myself. Since the tools used to imp most things are common to only a few major categories, to include them on every item entry would be redundant. I'm thinking maybe some kind of link to the improvement tool set? Then again, we could edit the various skills entries to include what tools are used when improving in that area. I do think that putting them into the template box is a bit clunky, but maybe there's a graceful way. What do you think? --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 09:40, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: I suppose listing the improvement method on the skill pages should be enough. Any exception to the normal improvement method should be mentioned on the item page itself. [[User:Manny|Manny]] 10:00, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : It's good to see everyone's so eager to get started, but please hold your (so far unimplemented) horses. Egal finally implemented ParserFunctions, so I have in mind to tinker quite a bit with the templates now. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 16:18, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: Well, some of us have already started, but for now we can put the brakes on. What are your plans? I mean can't you tinker with the templates even after we've template-ized the pages or do you have something more drastic in mind? --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:36, 27 August 2007 (CDT)</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Settlement_talk:Template_Sandbox&diff=25187 2007-08-27T14:40:01Z

<p>Hephaestus: /* Implementation */</p> <hr /> <div>I was thinking that for pages on just about everything covering any kind of resource or building process (like 80% of this wiki) are sort of ugly and they don't flow well. They are, however, quite consistent which is good. If you browse on over the [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Jeweler%27s_Workshop Dwarf Fortress wiki], you'll see nice template boxes on the right hand side that provide a sort of &quot;just the facts&quot; view of several different categories of things. Now DF and Wurm don't have a lot in common, but there is one thing that binds them: they're both games about stuff. I was thinking that designing templates for many of our &quot;stuff-related&quot; pages would really jazz up this wiki and make it more functional. It would provide easy at a glance info in the box, leaving the rest of the page to discuss quirks, advice, or general discussion on that item/building.<br /> <br /> Anyway, I created this page for tinkering with templates to see if I or any of you can come up with something that looks nice and works.<br /> --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:00, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> Also, if you guys think it's cool, I'll make a trial template page and a fake item entry to tinker around with the templates.<br /> --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:40, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Let's try to keep it to one set of pages. One template (e.g. [[Template:Test]]) and one page to use it one (e.g. this page) is enough, any more extensive testing fits better as a subpage of your user page. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 15:39, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: At current, I have made 3 pages including this one with no plans to make any other. You're right though in that one page, [[TestItem]] can be done away with and I can test the results of the template tinkering on this page. Overall, I'm more interested in what people think of this idea in general. To me, it would make this wiki so much more tidy and easy to read, but I'm not interested in foisting my aesthetic onto others if they don't want it. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:46, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: It feels strange, but then again it usually does when something new comes along, it will probably grow onto people. On the other hand I'm no wiki-admin, so I'm not in charge to do such decisions ^_^ --[[User:Steffel|Steffe]] 21:19, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: Well, if you want to check it out, I plugged the information for a hatchet into [[TestItem]]. I'll probably be making up a test image that should be used as a standard for such a template. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 22:08, 21 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: Hmm, I kinda like the old (current) version better, it feels so empty with the template-version :/ Then again, it's just that, a test so far. --[[User:Steffel|Steffe]] 19:55, 22 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::::: Well, I agree with you. But isn't it funny how condensed the information can be? I guess my point is that most of these wiki articles are too sparse. I've personally come across about 3/4 of the pages that need more information. Just the facts doesn't always do it. I guess the point of the template is to get &quot;just the facts&quot; off to the side and easy to spot so that we can maybe spend more time on more in depth information. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 21:43, 22 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> (Skipping indentation) I think the core issue here is that usually '''there is no in-depth information'''. We have a huge amount of pages whose only unique information can be reduced to about five lines fitting inside a box: The name of the result item, the two items to combine, the items needed to complete it, and the skill used. Everything else is either redundant or fluff.<br /> <br /> I've been thinking about introducing template boxes myself, so I support this measure. I see three main benefits. 1) A consistent view of the core information. 2) Getting rid of redundancy. 3) By cleaning up the pages, it becomes visually obvious that there's room for (and need for) in-depth information.<br /> <br /> I would have adjusted the template some, but I'm still waiting for Egal to add the parserfunctions extension. Also moved the showcase to this page. Makes little sense to use the talk page of a different article from the one we're testing in. :) - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 15:46, 23 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Thanks for the much needed input Dashiva. I agree with you on almost all counts. I do agree that we need to keep things concise, but many pages are more than a few degrees shy of concise. For example, the other day I made my first dirt mound and I realized that the wiki didn't mention that you need a second kindling to start the pile. Also, there was no indication of what affected the output of the pile. There are lots of pages like that. Just because information doesn't fall within the template box doesn't mean it's not crucial. That being said, I think critical mass with the template box would have the outside-of-box text filling up the space to the left of the box and maybe a bit below, but not too much.<br /> <br /> :Template boxes also, as I've said, allow for easier parsing of critical information for quick reference. I also believe that the sparsity of info on the current wiki pages is stylistically negative as very little info tends to get spread over broad expanses of real estate. There are some pages that have no need of much in depth info, so even these pages would benefit from condensing into such a consistent box to make the info more readable. I'm hoping to maybe tweak the template box a little (I'm thinking of merging the image slot and the result slot because they really are redundant) then maybe meshing them into item entries. What do you think? I may also start working on a building template here that serves much the same function, but geared towards information relevant to buildings. Having gone through many of the entries for both items and buildings I find that most entries &lt;i&gt;are not&lt;/i&gt; consistent as I had initially thought. and need to be cleaned up as well. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 14:36, 24 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> === Implementation ===<br /> Since there were no major objections, I went ahead and started putting the template box into various item entries. I assume the work will be long and tedious. Any brave soul out there care to help me?<br /> <br /> In the future I'd also like to consider Bestiary templates, building templates, and some others. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 22:52, 26 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :Some pages such as [[carving knife]] and [[lantern]] have improvement(-tools) sections. Should these be part of the template? [[User:Manny|Manny]] 08:54, 27 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: I was kind of wondering that myself. Since the tools used to imp most things are common to only a few major categories, to include them on every item entry would be redundant. I'm thinking maybe some kind of link to the improvement tool set? Then again, we could edit the various skills entries to include what tools are used when improving in that area. I do think that putting them into the template box is a bit clunky, but maybe there's a graceful way. What do you think? --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 09:40, 27 August 2007 (CDT)</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Manny&diff=25179 2007-08-27T13:45:13Z

<p>Hephaestus: </p> <hr /> <div>Must have a pet peeve with capitalizations in headlines :P ~ [[User:Tigiot|Tigiot]] 17:27, 31 January 2007 (CST)<br /> <br /> == Cookie ==<br /> You do a great job sorting out all these ''Player:'' redirects, so I'm awarding you this cookie...I guess you could print it... :P {{smiley}} &lt;p&gt;&lt;small&gt;--http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/1144/duckie0fq.gif[[User:Lainiwakura|Lain Iwakura]] 11:00, 1 July 2006 (CDT)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt; <br /> http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/6886/chocchipcookie3mi.jpg&lt;br&gt;<br /> <br /> == Thanks ==<br /> <br /> Thanks for editing those new pages I did with the Blabel/ (letter) thing. I forgot to do them.<br /> <br /> -Wossoo<br /> <br /> &lt;br&gt;Wow, thats a hell of allot of pages you've edited :D&lt;br&gt;<br /> -MainCorpse<br /> <br /> &lt;p&gt;You must be a [[:wikipedia:Wikipedia:Wikipediholic|wikiholic]]..great work! {{smiley}}&lt;br/&gt; &lt;small&gt;-- http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/8964/duckieta2.gif[[User:Lainiwakura|Lain Iwakura]] 14:38, 10 January 2007 (CST)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;<br /> <br /> == Woopidodee ==<br /> <br /> Good work on the wiki, I always see your name in the recent changes =) - SwedishPhoenix<br /> <br /> == Another thanks ==<br /> <br /> I see you started to implement the item template. I really appreciate that! I will work some more on it later tonight and I'm sure we'll have it knocked out in noe time. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 08:45, 27 August 2007 (CDT)</div>

Hephaestus https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php?title=Settlement_talk:Template_Sandbox&diff=25152 2007-08-27T03:52:36Z

<p>Hephaestus: </p> <hr /> <div>I was thinking that for pages on just about everything covering any kind of resource or building process (like 80% of this wiki) are sort of ugly and they don't flow well. They are, however, quite consistent which is good. If you browse on over the [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Jeweler%27s_Workshop Dwarf Fortress wiki], you'll see nice template boxes on the right hand side that provide a sort of &quot;just the facts&quot; view of several different categories of things. Now DF and Wurm don't have a lot in common, but there is one thing that binds them: they're both games about stuff. I was thinking that designing templates for many of our &quot;stuff-related&quot; pages would really jazz up this wiki and make it more functional. It would provide easy at a glance info in the box, leaving the rest of the page to discuss quirks, advice, or general discussion on that item/building.<br /> <br /> Anyway, I created this page for tinkering with templates to see if I or any of you can come up with something that looks nice and works.<br /> --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:00, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> Also, if you guys think it's cool, I'll make a trial template page and a fake item entry to tinker around with the templates.<br /> --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 18:40, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Let's try to keep it to one set of pages. One template (e.g. [[Template:Test]]) and one page to use it one (e.g. this page) is enough, any more extensive testing fits better as a subpage of your user page. - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 15:39, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :: At current, I have made 3 pages including this one with no plans to make any other. You're right though in that one page, [[TestItem]] can be done away with and I can test the results of the template tinkering on this page. Overall, I'm more interested in what people think of this idea in general. To me, it would make this wiki so much more tidy and easy to read, but I'm not interested in foisting my aesthetic onto others if they don't want it. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 16:46, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::: It feels strange, but then again it usually does when something new comes along, it will probably grow onto people. On the other hand I'm no wiki-admin, so I'm not in charge to do such decisions ^_^ --[[User:Steffel|Steffe]] 21:19, 19 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::: Well, if you want to check it out, I plugged the information for a hatchet into [[TestItem]]. I'll probably be making up a test image that should be used as a standard for such a template. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 22:08, 21 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: Hmm, I kinda like the old (current) version better, it feels so empty with the template-version :/ Then again, it's just that, a test so far. --[[User:Steffel|Steffe]] 19:55, 22 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> :::::: Well, I agree with you. But isn't it funny how condensed the information can be? I guess my point is that most of these wiki articles are too sparse. I've personally come across about 3/4 of the pages that need more information. Just the facts doesn't always do it. I guess the point of the template is to get &quot;just the facts&quot; off to the side and easy to spot so that we can maybe spend more time on more in depth information. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 21:43, 22 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> (Skipping indentation) I think the core issue here is that usually '''there is no in-depth information'''. We have a huge amount of pages whose only unique information can be reduced to about five lines fitting inside a box: The name of the result item, the two items to combine, the items needed to complete it, and the skill used. Everything else is either redundant or fluff.<br /> <br /> I've been thinking about introducing template boxes myself, so I support this measure. I see three main benefits. 1) A consistent view of the core information. 2) Getting rid of redundancy. 3) By cleaning up the pages, it becomes visually obvious that there's room for (and need for) in-depth information.<br /> <br /> I would have adjusted the template some, but I'm still waiting for Egal to add the parserfunctions extension. Also moved the showcase to this page. Makes little sense to use the talk page of a different article from the one we're testing in. :) - [[User:Dashiva|Dashiva]] 15:46, 23 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> : Thanks for the much needed input Dashiva. I agree with you on almost all counts. I do agree that we need to keep things concise, but many pages are more than a few degrees shy of concise. For example, the other day I made my first dirt mound and I realized that the wiki didn't mention that you need a second kindling to start the pile. Also, there was no indication of what affected the output of the pile. There are lots of pages like that. Just because information doesn't fall within the template box doesn't mean it's not crucial. That being said, I think critical mass with the template box would have the outside-of-box text filling up the space to the left of the box and maybe a bit below, but not too much.<br /> <br /> :Template boxes also, as I've said, allow for easier parsing of critical information for quick reference. I also believe that the sparsity of info on the current wiki pages is stylistically negative as very little info tends to get spread over broad expanses of real estate. There are some pages that have no need of much in depth info, so even these pages would benefit from condensing into such a consistent box to make the info more readable. I'm hoping to maybe tweak the template box a little (I'm thinking of merging the image slot and the result slot because they really are redundant) then maybe meshing them into item entries. What do you think? I may also start working on a building template here that serves much the same function, but geared towards information relevant to buildings. Having gone through many of the entries for both items and buildings I find that most entries &lt;i&gt;are not&lt;/i&gt; consistent as I had initially thought. and need to be cleaned up as well. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 14:36, 24 August 2007 (CDT)<br /> <br /> === Implementation ===<br /> <br /> Since there were no major objections, I went ahead and started putting the template box into various item entries. I assume the work will be long and tedious. Any brave soul out there care to help me?<br /> <br /> In the future I'd also like to consider Bestiary templates, building templates, and some others. --[[User:Hephaestus|Hephaestus]] 22:52, 26 August 2007 (CDT)</div>

Hephaestus